Bolivian ram tank mates

[schocker]

I recent completed a fishless cycle on a 29 gallon planted tank. I've been stocking it over the last week or so with some various danios, guppies, glow light tetras and Otto cats. I really want a Bolivian ram as a feature fish. I've done a lot of research online and the impression that I have is that they are good in a community tank, as long as the other fish do not compete for the same space (bottom of the tank) as the ram.

I was browsing at this one lfs and the staff members I talked to said that bolivians are aggressive and would eat the other fish. I thought is was a bunch of BS because of the research I did. I questioned another person at another lfs who seemed to be really knowledgeable about bolivians and said I would have no trouble and could probably keep two. She said that I should just stay away from gouramis.

So for those that have or had Bolivians, what do you think?

 

[reefdiver]

I have one with tiger barbs, high fin red tetras, ottos, snails, red and blue tetras and some harluiqins. I dont see any problem other than mine is shy when it's time to eat.

 

[allaboutfish]

these are great fish as long as you dont have corys or loaches or any smaller shrimp.

 

[thappybus]

I have 15 rams in a a 4ft tanl with corrys, loaches and neons for 2 years and its going great.Just make sure there is plenty of caves and bogwood

 

[schocker]

Thanks. I think they will do fine with my danios, ottos, guppies and glow lights. I've got lots of plants and driftwood so there should be lots of suitable habitat for them.

I know they can be sensitive fish to keep. In your opinion what is the most important factor for healthy bolivians. Ph, nitrates.........

 

[HN1]

I recent completed a fishless cycle on a 29 gallon planted tank. I've been stocking it over the last week or so with some various danios, guppies, glow light tetras and Otto cats. I really want a Bolivian ram as a feature fish. I've done a lot of research online and the impression that I have is that they are good in a community tank, as long as the other fish do not compete for the same space (bottom of the tank) as the ram.

I was browsing at this one lfs and the staff members I talked to said that bolivians are aggressive and would eat the other fish. I thought is was a bunch of BS because of the research I did. I questioned another person at another lfs who seemed to be really knowledgeable about bolivians and said I would have no trouble and could probably keep two. She said that I should just stay away from gouramis.

So for those that have or had Bolivians, what do you think?

I think you should slow waaayy down.

 

[schocker]

Relax. It's not happening for a while. I plan to let the tank mature. Just trying to educate myself. You okay with that?

 

[HN1]

With what? You stocking fish in a week in a new tank or telling me to relax? Nevermind, nope not ok with either actually.

 

[allaboutfish]

wait you put otto cats in a new tank!!!! otos NEED algae and a very mature tank.

 

[eco23]

Just to play devils advocate for a moment and present a defense for the OP...would you not agree that one of the benefits of fishless cycling is the ability to initially add a good % of your fish when the tank is first stocked? Otherwise, why would ~4ppm be the normally suggested amount of ammo instead of 1-2ppm followed by slowly increasing the bio-load over a long time frame? I agree that the type of fish will be a huge factor in determining the amount of fish initially added, especially if there are territorial / aggressive personalities of the fish. Speaking only to my personal experience, I have never had a problem stocking ~50% of my tank initially with small, peaceful community fish. In my 46 gallon I initially added Danios, Neons and Red Eye Tetras over the course of the first week the tank was cycled. I then waited a week or two making sure all my parameters stayed stable before continuing to stock my tank. I experienced no problems as far as stress or aggression with the first additions, and my newly established bio-filter never blinked an eye.

As for the Otos, I absolutely agree they should be after the tank is established and there is an ample food source for them besides having to supplement their diet with wafers, veggies, etc...because I've heard plenty of examples of Otos not being interested in the supplements that are offered to them. I do believe a lot of people add Otos a little early if they experience an explosion of diatoms (I was one of them), but I was lucky enough to have Otos that were more than happy to eat wafers and veggies after the diatom outbreak ended and before other types of algae began to develop.

I'm only sharing my personal experiences and not challenging that of others, it just caught my eye when I saw it was mentioned that adding the Danios, Tetras and Guppys (excluding the Otos) was initial overstocking after a fishless cycle assuming they were added in reasonable numbers.

Is there basic info I am missing? Is it because the tank is smaller and the addition of 3 (4 counting Otos) species accounts for a much larger bio-load than I am giving credit for? I've also never kept Guppies or Glowlight Tetras, so perhaps not knowing those fish also fits into the equation.

 

[schocker]

With what? You stocking fish in a week in a new tank or telling me to relax? Nevermind, nope not ok with either actually.

This is the problem with these types of forums. Passionate people have a very anonymous and direct way to launch criticism at complete strangers without any need for accountability or fear of repercussion. It creates a very false and misguided sense of bravery. People will say things online that they would never have the guts to say to someone in person. And don't say you would. I guarantee you that if confronted with the same scenario in person, you would handle it completely differently. Anyone who says otherwise is dreaming.

You don't have all the information. I gave you a little snippet of what I have been building for the last 6 weeks and you quickly formed an opinion without all the facts. You didn't ask any questions or make further inquiries. Just a quick judgement statement that will affect the opinions of others who read it. Now suddenly thanks to you, I have committed the equivalent of first degree murder in the eyes of fish keepers all over the world.

I didn't tell you how many fish I had. Only what kinds. My tank is not fully stocked and I was satisfied that based on my research on fishless cycling that it could take on a larger population of fish initially. After dosing my tank to 4ppm for the last 6 weeks, a reasonable bioload is necessary to maintain the biofilter I worked so hard to create. This thing was chewing through 4ppm of ammonia and nitrite in 24 hours intervals. A dozen fish wasn't going to present any kind of challenge.

You can fairly criticize me for stocking otto cats. I knew that a new tank isn't the best situation for them, but neither is starving to death at the fish shop. The tank is full of diatoms, which I know will vanish eventually, but food can be supplemented (algae wafers, veg etc). Really no different than caring for a dog. Yeah I could let him roam the house without offering food, eventually he will get into something resembling food that will keep him from starvation, but dog food is just so much easier and much more humane......

You may enjoy this aspect of these forums. Quick judgements, feeling high and mighty, holding yourself supreme over other less experienced members. Thinking that I really care if you are "ok" with what I am doing or not. Not sure what that accomplishes other than driving people away. Is the forum here to help and attract newcomers, build and share knowledge to improve fish keeping skills, or identify weaknesses, common mistakes etc, and quickly attack, puff out your chest and feel like a man for a brief moment. I am sure that you go to sleep at night knowing you have served aquarists well. Congrats. I can see you've had lots of practice. You are probably really good at keeping/breeding fish. Good for you. You found a formula that works. Maybe you are more helpful and useful to the hobby if you offer advice rather than criticism. But what the **** do I know. Right? You probably aren't "ok" with that either.

 

[jetajockey]

re: otos. I think otos are o.k. in a tank that's been run through a fishless cycle, it's had plenty of time to build up a healthy layer of biofilm. That's what they eat primarily, anyhow, seems like people seem to focus on the algae part and forget that.

One way to tell if a tank has a good layer of biofilm on it? Run a finger across the inside of the tank. If it's squeaky like running your finger across the outside of the glass would be, it's not ready yet.

Also, staying on top of supplements can keep them healthy just as well, whether it is fresh veggies or prepared wafers.

 

[schocker]

re: otos. I think otos are o.k. in a tank that's been run through a fishless cycle, it's had plenty of time to build up a healthy layer of biofilm. That's what they eat primarily, anyhow, seems like people seem to focus on the algae part and forget that.

One way to tell if a tank has a good layer of biofilm on it? Run a finger across the inside of the tank. If it's squeaky like running your finger across the outside of the glass would be, it's not ready yet.

Also, staying on top of supplements can keep them healthy just as well, whether it is fresh veggies or prepared wafers.

I think we're on the same page here. Ottos can be supplemented no different than the other fish in the tank.

 

[allaboutfish]

im sorry for saying that then. ive just heard that they are very hard to take anything else. i totally agree that you can add most of your stock after a fishless cycle.

 

[jetajockey]

I think we're on the same page here. Ottos can be supplemented no different than the other fish in the tank.

They can be a little more tricky to feed, some flat out refuse prepared foods, but I've always had good luck with real vegetable based wafers and fresh veggies.

I think they get a bad rap as being ultra sensitive fish because they are all wild caught and have a high die-off rate in the store. The most important thing to do when buying them is to pick the fattest healthiest ones you can find.

 

[schocker]

im sorry for saying that then. ive just heard that they are very hard to take anything else. i totally agree that you can add most of your stock after a fishless cycle.

Cool no worries. I appreciate your comment. I as I said, I think it's fair to debate when to add ottos. Maybe time will tell that I was wrong. I will admit this though, they are the fish that I watch closest in the tank to make sure they are getting their fair share.

 

[allaboutfish]

good luck with your ottos

 

[schocker]

They can be a little more tricky to feed, some flat out refuse prepared foods, but I've always had good luck with real vegetable based wafers and fresh veggies.

I think they get a bad rap as being ultra sensitive fish because they are all wild caught and have a high die-off rate in the store. The most important thing to do when buying them is to pick the fattest healthiest ones you can find.

That's consistent with what I have read that they are virtually on the brink of starvation by the time they make it to the fish shop. So far my guys are eating and they lasted for over a week now. But I also read that sometimes die offs are unavoidable if they are in rough shape at the lfs.

Do you blanch your veggies first? I heard that its best to feed them blanched zucchini.

 

[HN1]

This is the problem with these types of forums. Passionate people have a very anonymous and direct way to launch criticism at complete strangers without any need for accountability or fear of repercussion. It creates a very false and misguided sense of bravery. People will say things online that they would never have the guts to say to someone in person. And don't say you would. I guarantee you that if confronted with the same scenario in person, you would handle it completely differently. Anyone who says otherwise is dreaming.

You don't have all the information. I gave you a little snippet of what I have been building for the last 6 weeks and you quickly formed an opinion without all the facts. You didn't ask any questions or make further inquiries. Just a quick judgement statement that will affect the opinions of others who read it. Now suddenly thanks to you, I have committed the equivalent of first degree murder in the eyes of fish keepers all over the world.

I didn't tell you how many fish I had. Only what kinds. My tank is not fully stocked and I was satisfied that based on my research on fishless cycling that it could take on a larger population of fish initially. After dosing my tank to 4ppm for the last 6 weeks, a reasonable bioload is necessary to maintain the biofilter I worked so hard to create. This thing was chewing through 4ppm of ammonia and nitrite in 24 hours intervals. A dozen fish wasn't going to present any kind of challenge.

You can fairly criticize me for stocking otto cats. I knew that a new tank isn't the best situation for them, but neither is starving to death at the fish shop. The tank is full of diatoms, which I know will vanish eventually, but food can be supplemented (algae wafers, veg etc). Really no different than caring for a dog. Yeah I could let him roam the house without offering food, eventually he will get into something resembling food that will keep him from starvation, but dog food is just so much easier and much more humane......

You may enjoy this aspect of these forums. Quick judgements, feeling high and mighty, holding yourself supreme over other less experienced members. Thinking that I really care if you are "ok" with what I am doing or not. Not sure what that accomplishes other than driving people away. Is the forum here to help and attract newcomers, build and share knowledge to improve fish keeping skills, or identify weaknesses, common mistakes etc, and quickly attack, puff out your chest and feel like a man for a brief moment. I am sure that you go to sleep at night knowing you have served aquarists well. Congrats. I can see you've had lots of practice. You are probably really good at keeping/breeding fish. Good for you. You found a formula that works. Maybe you are more helpful and useful to the hobby if you offer advice rather than criticism. But what the **** do I know. Right? You probably aren't "ok" with that either.

I'm glad I was wrong. Given the information you presented, I would tell you or anyone exactly what I did which was to "slow down". I would say it in person, on the phone, etc. Anonymity and self has absolutely nothing to do with it. You chose to give a "snippet" of information and placed ownership on readers to ask for more. Why? That was YOUR choice. My response would have been very different with sufficient information.

Do you have any idea how many "I've just cycled my tank and added fish threads" that I've seen? Unfortunately, most people do not with hold information to invite a clash as you appear to have done. Before you question me, I'd suggest you research my posts. I do everything I can for this site and the hobby in general and that includes criticism when my opinion warrants it. My responses are just that, mine. My telling you to slow down was in the interest of your fish and your wallet. I gain nothing from it and you telling me to relax was simply rude. I may come off wrong at times, but I take offense to your insinuations and tone. I wish you happy fishkeeping and the best of luck.

 

[schocker]

I'm glad I was wrong. Given the information you presented, I would tell you or anyone exactly what I did which was to "slow down". I would say it in person, on the phone, etc. Anonymity and self has absolutely nothing to do with it. You chose to give a "snippet" of information and placed ownership on readers to ask for more. Why? That was YOUR choice. My response would have been very different with sufficient information.

Do you have any idea how many "I've just cycled my tank and added fish threads" that I've seen? Unfortunately, most people do not with hold information to invite a clash as you appear to have done. Before you question me, I'd suggest you research my posts. I do everything I can for this site and the hobby in general and that includes criticism when my opinion warrants it. My responses are just that, mine. My telling you to slow down was in the interest of your fish and your wallet. I gain nothing from it and you telling me to relax was simply rude. I may come off wrong at times, but I take offense to your insinuations and tone. I wish you happy fishkeeping and the best of luck.

I don't think its fair or right to offer any criticism without at least making an attempt to extract more information. Ask a question or two before "lighting someone up". Its easy to just jump in with an inflammatory remark based on very little information. Its not up to me to draft a post from the perspective that I need to defend myself from opinion. I'm not looking to clash with anyone. I told you to "relax" because I could see that you were jumping to a conclusion. Maybe that wasn't the best response to your comment, but I'm definitely not looking to clash with anyone.