Call me Crazy

[Red Tick]

Hello all,

I am a long time lurker new member. I recently received a very large setup from a friend and after playing around with it for a couple of months and doing some research I am finally getting serious with it. Just a couple of quick points before I lay down the gauntlet. I love planted tanks, turtles, water chemistry, balance, and the concept of self sustaining eco-systems.

Ok call me crazy but I want to put together a system that is a planted tank that I never have to do a water change on by leveraging aquaponics. The goal is to reduce the number of water changes Drastically if not completely, while growing plants above and below the water that can be used to feed the fish and me . Oh and to further complicate things I want to be able to support two turtles. All plant and animal species are TBD. Currently the stock includes 10 Giant Danios, 4 cory cats, and one 13 inch 10 year old pleco.

I understand needs of the fish and plants have to be balanced as best as possible and so species are important but most tropical freshwater fish are quite hearty I am told. The fish while nice to watch are really just there to play their part in the eco-system (poop) and the turtles, if I can find a way to support them, will be the pet stars in my house. Any ideas warnings thoughts are welcome!

Can this be done?
[240 Gallon Acrylic Marine Tank, Two API XP-L's, 4 foot LED day/night light]
1. Drastically reduce water changes or stop all together.
2. Planted eco-system below the water.
3. Aquaponics (small) above the waterline.
4. Run CO2 and UV sterilizers.
5. Anything I am forgetting.

 

[flitabout]

Substrate and what type of led light strip do you have? Most leds for plants are quite expensive and specific. Better water conditions will be achieved with weekly water changes. Chances are your turtles will end up eating your fish. I personally wouldn't try to do it. But it is an interesting idea.

 

[Red Tick]

Substrate

I Am planning on a combination of black rock, black sand, and black Eco-Complete substrates. My current lighting is a little low for my 240 gallon tank but currently running three rows of LEDS contained in a 48" housing producing I believe 6500K. I am currently researching proper lighting balances but I need to decide on plant species to be able to definitively say which lighting system I will use. I am always open to suggestions, in fact I am banking on suggestions to help me dial in my options.

 

[Toad]

What kind of turtles?

 

[GodFan]

Hello all,

I am a long time lurker new member. I recently received a very large setup from a friend and after playing around with it for a couple of months and doing some research I am finally getting serious with it. Just a couple of quick points before I lay down the gauntlet. I love planted tanks, turtles, water chemistry, balance, and the concept of self sustaining eco-systems.

Ok call me crazy but I want to put together a system that is a planted tank that I never have to do a water change on by leveraging aquaponics. The goal is to reduce the number of water changes Drastically if not completely, while growing plants above and below the water that can be used to feed the fish and me . Oh and to further complicate things I want to be able to support two turtles. All plant and animal species are TBD. Currently the stock includes 10 Giant Danios, 4 cory cats, and one 13 inch 10 year old pleco.

I understand needs of the fish and plants have to be balanced as best as possible and so species are important but most tropical freshwater fish are quite hearty I am told. The fish while nice to watch are really just there to play their part in the eco-system (poop) and the turtles, if I can find a way to support them, will be the pet stars in my house. Any ideas warnings thoughts are welcome!

Can this be done?
[240 Gallon Acrylic Marine Tank, Two API XP-L's, 4 foot LED day/night light]
1. Drastically reduce water changes or stop all together.
2. Planted eco-system below the water.
3. Aquaponics (small) above the waterline.
4. Run CO2 and UV sterilizers.
5. Anything I am forgetting.

It is possible. I will try to get back on here later to read your whole post and reply. There is alot of info to go over.

 

[GodFan]

Hello all,

I am a long time lurker new member. I recently received a very large setup from a friend and after playing around with it for a couple of months and doing some research I am finally getting serious with it. Just a couple of quick points before I lay down the gauntlet. I love planted tanks, turtles, water chemistry, balance, and the concept of self sustaining eco-systems.

Ok call me crazy but I want to put together a system that is a planted tank that I never have to do a water change on by leveraging aquaponics. The goal is to reduce the number of water changes Drastically if not completely, while growing plants above and below the water that can be used to feed the fish and me . Oh and to further complicate things I want to be able to support two turtles. All plant and animal species are TBD. Currently the stock includes 10 Giant Danios, 4 cory cats, and one 13 inch 10 year old pleco.

I understand needs of the fish and plants have to be balanced as best as possible and so species are important but most tropical freshwater fish are quite hearty I am told. The fish while nice to watch are really just there to play their part in the eco-system (poop) and the turtles, if I can find a way to support them, will be the pet stars in my house. Any ideas warnings thoughts are welcome!

Can this be done?
[240 Gallon Acrylic Marine Tank, Two API XP-L's, 4 foot LED day/night light]
1. Drastically reduce water changes or stop all together.
2. Planted eco-system below the water.
3. Aquaponics (small) above the waterline.
4. Run CO2 and UV sterilizers.
5. Anything I am forgetting.

Had a few extra minutes after all
So first off welcome! This is a great forum to be a part of! I am also interested in ecosystems myself!

So you have a lot of great options and potential especially with such a large tank! Just a quick note though I would not recomend eating anything you grow. With the turtles in the tank (turtles are one of the worst carriers of salmonella) it could taint your food. However growing some food to help feed the turtles would be very cool!
I know very little about turtles but I will try to help with what I can. Turtles will eat your plants and any fish they can catch. The pleco may or may kot be safe. He may actually be a threat to your turtles!
If your turtles do not eat your plants then I would plant the under water and land portions of the tank. Anubias, java fern, wisteria, and java moss are all very easy to grow aquatic plants (no co2 requiered) crypts are cool as well and may appreciate the extra poop in the substrate from the turtles. On the land side pothos vine (poisonous to some animals), anubias, mondo grass, are good as well as alot of pond plants or plants for near the pond.
As far as aquaponics I probably wouldnt eat anything grown but maybe you could try chives and strawberries? Not sure what turtles eat lol

Substrate choice is hard for me because I dont know about the digging habits of turtles. Maybe ecocomplete and laterite or clay would be best.

Hope I have been of some help here! A member on another forum made a similar setup without the turtles of aquaponics. Search google for Toms bucket o mud. Balance is very important. You need to have enough terrestial plants to eat the nutrients that the fish and turtles dont like.

God bless and good luck!

 

[aqua_chem]

First off,

So you have a lot of great options and potential especially with such a large tank! Just a quick note though I would not recomend eating anything you grow. With the turtles in the tank (turtles are one of the worst carriers of salmonella) it could taint your food. However growing some food to help feed the turtles would be very cool!

That's really useful insight. Thanks for posting it.




Second, this idea comes up fairly often, but I can't say I every fully understand the motivation behind it. If the goal is to grow tomatoes or whatnot with your aquarium, then it's very doable. If the goal is to not have to do water changes.... it's possible, just generally not very reasonable. I don't think I've ever really seen it done as most people imagine it, especially if your goal is to have terrestrial plants with food products (ie, high nutrient demand).


I guess what I'm saying is that this a complicated problem, and you should limit yourself to one primary goal and see how many secondary goals you can shoehorn into it. Aquaponic setup with fish? Doable. Tank minimal waterchange requirements? Doable within reason. Combination of the two? Much more difficult.


The Bucket O' Mud tank Godfan mentioned is one of my favorite planted tanks, but it really needs to be appreciated for what it is: a fully functioning ecosystem designed as such. It's a ~70g tank with about 15g tank worth of stock in it, with special dimensions to maximize ecosystem area and surface area (ie bottom area) to support the light bioload. It's a masterpiece in it's own right, but I don't think it's what the OP is going for. I do love it though.

 

[GodFan]

First off,

That's really useful insight. Thanks for posting it.

Second, this idea comes up fairly often, but I can't say I every fully understand the motivation behind it. If the goal is to grow tomatoes or whatnot with your aquarium, then it's very doable. If the goal is to not have to do water changes.... it's possible, just generally not very reasonable. I don't think I've ever really seen it done as most people imagine it, especially if your goal is to have terrestrial plants with food products (ie, high nutrient demand).

I guess what I'm saying is that this a complicated problem, and you should limit yourself to one primary goal and see how many secondary goals you can shoehorn into it. Aquaponic setup with fish? Doable. Tank minimal waterchange requirements? Doable within reason. Combination of the two? Much more difficult.

The Bucket O' Mud tank Godfan mentioned is one of my favorite planted tanks, but it really needs to be appreciated for what it is: a fully functioning ecosystem designed as such. It's a ~70g tank with about 15g tank worth of stock in it, with special dimensions to maximize ecosystem area and surface area (ie bottom area) to support the light bioload. It's a masterpiece in it's own right, but I don't think it's what the OP is going for. I do love it though.

It is one of my favourite tanks as well. However you are right. His bioload is small and it is perfectly balanced.
To the OP you need to remember the high bioload of most turtles and take that into account. No water changes may not be possible.
Also as Aquachem stated you may be better to focus on one goal and keep the other as a side project. Balance is very hard under good circumstances. You are talking about not only balancing the high bioload with plants but also the nutrient level for an aquaponics setup and tankmates for the turtles.
This is a great idea but you may have to pick between a few aspects of it to be really succesful

 

[Rivers2k]

Crazy! Just doing as you said haha. I am curious to see how this turns out. It doesn't seem as though you would have the volume to do what you would like in a 240 gallon tank. Plecos and Turtle are poop machines you may have to much waste for the plants to clear out, turning the water toxic killing the fish. You may have more success with smaller fish that give off less waste. It still will be a delicate balancing act.

I personally think you would need something more indoor pond size to do a self sustaining ecosystem with fish and turtles. But I will never be the one to say it can't be done. I say try it and keep an online journal so we can follow.

 

[Red Tick]

Crazy

Thanks for all the feedback. First turtles are a stretch goal. I would like to have two musk turtles (Texas Musks) IF I can support them in this ecosystem. So your points are all taken. Im not sure yet if I can swing turtles. Second the bioload will not be the sole responsibility of the plants above or below the waterline. The entire system will be support by two API XP-L canister filters running mechanical, biological, and chemical stages. Each canister filters on average 350 gph. Without the canister filters it would not be possible to achieve no water changes I don't believe. Third the plants above the waterline need only filter water. If I can grow plants that fruit or produce edible leaves then great but those would really only be for the fish and possibly the turtles. Weather I grow high efficiency grasses or tomatoes makes no difference to me.

I plan on blogging/journaling the tank so if anyone has a suggestion for sites that people use to track maintenance of tanks and can then be shared let me know. i plan on daily/weekly/monthly water measurements. Some of which will be automated of course but monthly tests will defiantly be manual using tank chemistry sets to measure levels.

Thanks for the link to the Bucket O Mud! I can;t wait to read it. I guess i will have to come up with a name for this project. I just finished up a DIY 3D background and will begin posting videos I a week or so.

 

[Red Tick]

Crazy

Oh WOW Bucket O Mud is a crazy cool tank! Not sure I will come close to achieving such a polished product. But its cool to see what can be done when one puts their mind to it. Hope mine looks half as nice.

 

[Red Tick]

Crazy Update

For those who asked which plants I am planning on using I have decided and they are as follows.

Submerged: Fanwort, Anacharis, Dwarf Hairgrass, Fissidens Fontanus
Surface: Water Poppies, Bluebell, Society Garlic, Zepher Lily, Philodendron

My official start date for no water changes worked out to be Jan 1st so that will be easy to keep track of. Oh and I will be posting photo's to my album soon.