Can Angel Fish change gender?

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Goldfisherry

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Recently I bought a angel fish (freshwater) and I am wondering if they can change gender when they are in pairs? I read that clownfish can change gender, and some other types of fish can.

:fish1:
 
No that is mostly a Sw fish thing. I'm not sure of any fw fish that change.


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Recently I bought a angel fish (freshwater) and I am wondering if they can change gender when they are in pairs? I read that clownfish can change gender, and some other types of fish can.

:fish1:

Not to my knowledge. In some freshwater cases, mainly livebearers, young male fry will look like females then "change" as they get older but I equate this more to a human going through puberty ( changing from a boy to a man) more than actually changing genders. There are cases of freshwater fish( again, livebearers) which can change genders but it is rare. However, gender changing is common in many marine fish. Wrasses, Clownfish, Groupers, Anthias, Hamlets, just to name a few, all go through a sex "change" when one member of the breeding pair is lost. So these fish do actually change sexual organs however, again to my limited knowledge, it happens only one way. There is no reversal once changed.

Hope this helps (y)
 
I had a pair of female angels that killed any male I put with them. They both laid eggs at one point, and I actually watched them BOTH lay eggs. Over the course of about a year or two, the dominant female became a male and was able to fertilize the other females eggs. I even got fry from them, but they ate them all since I never separated them.

I'd say it's possible, but it would take a very long time.
 
I had a pair of female angels that killed any male I put with them. They both laid eggs at one point, and I actually watched them BOTH lay eggs. Over the course of about a year or two, the dominant female became a male and was able to fertilize the other females eggs. I even got fry from them, but they ate them all since I never separated them.

I'd say it's possible, but it would take a very long time.

Not that I am calling you out on this, ;) but in my 50 years of working with Angelfish and breeding several hundred pairs of them, I have never seen this happen nor could I find definitive proof on the internet that it does. It's always possible that what you thought you saw was not what you actually saw. It's not always easy to see what the fish are actually doing when they are spawning.
I would definitely like to see any evidence you can find that supports what you say you saw. I'm always trying to update my own knowledge of these fish. (y)If this is true, it would make sense how today's fish are showing opposite gender characteristics because this was not something that happened in the past. Hermaphrodism may have been bred into the fish? Please keep us posted. (y)
 
No that is mostly a Sw fish thing. I'm not sure of any fw fish that change.


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Crenicara punctulatum will typically only have one male in a group. When that one is removed, the dominant female takes its place as a male. The only cichlids I know that do this, although I think a couple of the other check board species will as well


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No that is mostly a Sw fish thing. I'm not sure of any fw fish that change.


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Actually, there are scientific papers of freshwater fishes that do change genders. You can see one of them here: Gender-bending fish

But it does not mention Freshwater Angelfish specifically nor could I find any scientific papers that would confirm it's happening. I have found papers stating that there seems to be more instances and concerns of fish hermaphrotism due to either climate change or waters contaminated with water high in estrogen based chemicals. So this would have to be a new thing versus and old thing as serious effects of both of these things have only been obvious in the past 2 decades I believe.
 
Actually, there are scientific papers of freshwater fishes that do change genders. You can see one of them here: Gender-bending fish



But it does not mention Freshwater Angelfish specifically nor could I find any scientific papers that would confirm it's happening. I have found papers stating that there seems to be more instances and concerns of fish hermaphrotism due to either climate change or waters contaminated with water high in estrogen based chemicals. So this would have to be a new thing versus and old thing as serious effects of both of these things have only been obvious in the past 2 decades I believe.


Cool information. Thanks Andy and freak! Always learning something new.


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Not that I am calling you out on this, ;) but in my 50 years of working with Angelfish and breeding several hundred pairs of them, I have never seen this happen nor could I find definitive proof on the internet that it does. It's always possible that what you thought you saw was not what you actually saw. It's not always easy to see what the fish are actually doing when they are spawning.
I would definitely like to see any evidence you can find that supports what you say you saw. I'm always trying to update my own knowledge of these fish. (y)If this is true, it would make sense how today's fish are showing opposite gender characteristics because this was not something that happened in the past. Hermaphrodism may have been bred into the fish? Please keep us posted. (y)

Lol, I don't have any evidence as the fish have been dead over 10 years. However, I'm 100% certain they both laid eggs. I got them young, body size about the same as a quarter. I wasn't even a teenager yet, and I originally bought 3. The two that lived 10 years were oddly colored (one siamese-colored and the other like a tortoise shell cat) so there's no mistaking them for another fish. They killed the 3rd within 2 weeks, so I added another. They killed that one too, so I assumed I had a male & female pair (even though they were tiny). They quickly grew into adults and I noticed the siamese laying eggs on the left wall of the tank. I watched her lay them one by one. Then I saw the tortoise shell laying eggs on the filter intake. Again, watched her lay them one by one. I saw them both lay eggs several times over a few years. Of course, the eggs always turned white and were either eaten or cleaned out by me. I tried adding a male to the tank twice, but both times they killed the male. After awhile, the siamese stopped laying eggs, but the tortoise shell continued to. The siamese never changed outward appearance as far as I can recall, but she was always a bit bigger. Then, one day I saw her “shimmying” over some of the tortoise shells eggs. Didn't really think much of it at first. Then after a few sets of eggs, they stopped turning white and I ended up with fry. They had a few batches of fry, but always ate them. I figured it was because they were in a small tank (can't remember if it was only a 10g or a 20g, but both are small for such large angels).

The whole process took at least a year, maybe even 2. Personally, I never would've believed it of I didn't see it myself. So I don't blame you if you don't! Lol but what purpose does it serve for me to lie? And even though I was young, it was something I witnessed for years. I got them at the age of 8 or 9 and they didn't die until I was 19. It took until they were around 6 for the siamese to “switch,” which would mean I was around 14 or 15 at the time.

I've heard of this happening with livebearers, but have only heard of it with angelfish one other time...and I don't know if I believe him. He breeds them and has for several decades, but I still think he may have just mixed the one up somehow...

Not sure why it happened with mine when it wasn't necessary. Maybe the siamese was born a hermaphrodite or had some other birth defect. I'll never know. :/
 
Lol, I don't have any evidence as the fish have been dead over 10 years. However, I'm 100% certain they both laid eggs. I got them young, body size about the same as a quarter. I wasn't even a teenager yet, and I originally bought 3. The two that lived 10 years were oddly colored (one siamese-colored and the other like a tortoise shell cat) so there's no mistaking them for another fish. They killed the 3rd within 2 weeks, so I added another. They killed that one too, so I assumed I had a male & female pair (even though they were tiny). They quickly grew into adults and I noticed the siamese laying eggs on the left wall of the tank. I watched her lay them one by one. Then I saw the tortoise shell laying eggs on the filter intake. Again, watched her lay them one by one. I saw them both lay eggs several times over a few years. Of course, the eggs always turned white and were either eaten or cleaned out by me. I tried adding a male to the tank twice, but both times they killed the male. After awhile, the siamese stopped laying eggs, but the tortoise shell continued to. The siamese never changed outward appearance as far as I can recall, but she was always a bit bigger. Then, one day I saw her “shimmying” over some of the tortoise shells eggs. Didn't really think much of it at first. Then after a few sets of eggs, they stopped turning white and I ended up with fry. They had a few batches of fry, but always ate them. I figured it was because they were in a small tank (can't remember if it was only a 10g or a 20g, but both are small for such large angels).

The whole process took at least a year, maybe even 2. Personally, I never would've believed it of I didn't see it myself. So I don't blame you if you don't! Lol but what purpose does it serve for me to lie? And even though I was young, it was something I witnessed for years. I got them at the age of 8 or 9 and they didn't die until I was 19. It took until they were around 6 for the siamese to “switch,” which would mean I was around 14 or 15 at the time.

I've heard of this happening with livebearers, but have only heard of it with angelfish one other time...and I don't know if I believe him. He breeds them and has for several decades, but I still think he may have just mixed the one up somehow...

Not sure why it happened with mine when it wasn't necessary. Maybe the siamese was born a hermaphrodite or had some other birth defect. I'll never know. :/

That is an amazing situation and as I said, I have never seen that with all the Angels I have bred over the years. I just wish I could find some other collaborating evidence of this occurring. As fellow AAer" Brookster" says " if there are no picture, it didn't happen." :lol: But the time frame you mention does coincide with when things have been heating up with the effects of Climate Change and pollution so I can see where if the fish originated in the Orient or other areas where pollution is commonplace, that it may be the first to show this. I do have an open mind to this ( especially these days. :blink: ) Hopefully, if it happens again to someone, they will document it properly. It would definitely be an important find. (y)
 
That is an amazing situation and as I said, I have never seen that with all the Angels I have bred over the years. I just wish I could find some other collaborating evidence of this occurring. As fellow AAer" Brookster" says " if there are no picture, it didn't happen." :lol: But the time frame you mention does coincide with when things have been heating up with the effects of Climate Change and pollution so I can see where if the fish originated in the Orient or other areas where pollution is commonplace, that it may be the first to show this. I do have an open mind to this ( especially these days. :blink: ) Hopefully, if it happens again to someone, they will document it properly. It would definitely be an important find. (y)

Well I have been considering a single female for my 55g, but I'm not sure I can do one with my current stock, let alone two. Think lightning can, in fact, strike twice? Rofl
 
Well I have been considering a single female for my 55g, but I'm not sure I can do one with my current stock, let alone two. Think lightning can, in fact, strike twice? Rofl

We're in FL, the lightning capitol of the U.S so of course it COULD strike twice. :brows::lol:
Traditionally, a single female is as much of a problem as a breeding pair can be in a tank. If you are going to do a single Angel, I'd make it a male so that you eliminate a lot of the egg laying issues. (y)
 
We're in FL, the lightning capitol of the U.S so of course it COULD strike twice. :brows::lol:
Traditionally, a single female is as much of a problem as a breeding pair can be in a tank. If you are going to do a single Angel, I'd make it a male so that you eliminate a lot of the egg laying issues. (y)

Rofl true! That'd be a better idea. Getting far off OP's topic now though so that's for a future post! ?
 
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