Can't get cloudy water to clear after MONTHS of trying

[Vegababy]

This is the situation: I had a 10 gal that, after adding my molly (the 3rd fish) became cloudy. I couldn't get it to clear so I bought a 20 gal about 4 mos later. I waited about 3 weeks for the bacteria to stablize. The water hadn't cleared so I did a partial water change (maybe 25%).

Since then (3 mos) I have stopped using carbon alone and began using Ammo-Carb. I have done ammonia tests and it's coming back between ideal and safe. I have tried doing 10-15% water changes 2 times a week (using a PH balancer). I've cut back to 1 minimum feeding a day. I read to rinse out the filter once a week, so I started doing that. I'm also using two foam filters because I noticed a black film that continued to run from the carbon. So I have filter, ammo carb, filter.

Someone told me to a get a bigger filter, but the one I have is said to be good for up to 30 gal. There's only 3 fish and an algea eater in there!

What else can I possibly do?

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

are you doing a gravel vaccum when you do water changes?

cloudy water can be caused by bacteria that colonize when you've got too much fish poop and uneaten food in the tank.

I had a 10gall with a similiar problem, it just took lots of meticulous gravel vaccuming (I only wanted to remove 10-15% of the water, so I'd only get maybe half the tank really well vaccumed at one time), and water changes.

I don't know what ammo-carb is, can't offer any advice there.

I don't reccommend using any product that alters your pH however. Most fish can live in a pretty wide range of pH's...and trying to change it, will really throw off the ecosystem (as the pH has a direct effect on the amount of NH3 present, vs NH4...you alter your pH too rapidly, and you can end up with a deadly ammonia spike). When you do water changes, use a dechlorinator, and that's it. No need whatsoever for any other chemicals.

 

[Vegababy]

I usually stir up the gravel 2-3 times a week to get everything moving and into the filter. I stopped using the vaccum after flooding our bathroom. ooops! I've also cut the amount of gravel down to make this easier. There's just a thin layer covering the bottom and enough to hold the 2 fake plants down. Should I start removing the gravel to rinse it off?

 

[Allivymar]

Coupla thoughts...

The ammo carb is there to remove ammonia yes? It may well be removing enough ammonia that theres not quite enough for the bacteria and your tank is cycling over and over again. I'd can it, and be prepared to water changes whenever ammonia or nitrites rear their ugly heads. It sounds to me like the tank has never fully cycled; you shouldn't be getting any ammonia readings unless you are making bigger changes such as adding fish...

My other thought is the Ph stuff and I agree with sweets; why are you using it? Unless you have horribly high or low Ph (or you have fish which require special Ph) there isn't really a reason to change it. You may want to consider not using Ph chemicals; if you HAVE to change the Ph, natural methods such as peat or shells are a better way to go and don't mess the balance the way those chemicals do.

 

[Vegababy]

Hey there. I was told to use the ammo-carb mix because the ammo chips should help clear the water. I asked this on another board, but cna I toss the chips altogether and just use the foam filters. I thought the carbon was a needed to run the tank properly. And lastly, I used the Ph balancer to help stablize the water before adding it to the tank-I was trying to avoid shocking the fish.

Sounds like everything I was doing to solve the problem has only increased it

 

[Allivymar]

LOL welcome to the club; we ALL have managed to make our lives more complicated when we thought we were making things easier (Once upon a time I bought a little algae eater for my 10g tank to deal with algae instead of scraping the walls. I now have an 8 inch pleco and a 55g to house him LOL).

If I'm correct the ammo-carb is a carbon/ammonia chip mix yes? Erm...I'm afraid its really unneccessary. Just one of those expensive extras that make money for lfs (unfortunately they don't make a lot off the fish themselves). Carbon is realy only useful for a week or so, and even then its best to use it for removing medls or removing tints leached into tanks from driftwood. I guess you can see how useful it is in your situation. Best way to deal with ammonia is water changes (clean fresh conditioned water is ALWAYS a good thing).

What IS your Ph level normally? Take some tap water and test it. Then leave some sitting overnight and test again to see if it changes a lot. If its around 6.5-7.5 I wouldn't be concerned about changing it. Do make sure to see what the tank level is; if its very different do not do major water changes in a single shot; you don't want to shock the fish by changing the Ph too drastically.

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

Once upon a time I bought a little algae eater for my 10g tank to deal with algae instead of scraping the walls. I now have an 8 inch pleco and a 55g to house him LOL

i can see my future now...who needs a bed for their apartment, when 55 gallon aquarium for their pleco is at stake!!

 

[Allivymar]

Priorities sweets!

LOL

 

[Vegababy]

THanks for the insight--it'll remove the chips tonight. Yes, it is a carbon/ammonia chip mix. And I think I have a cup of it on the filter LOL. Poor little fishes.

AFter removing that and getting a Ph tester (meant to get that the first time, got on for Ammonia) is there anything else I should do, or just leave it be for a while?

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

well, you'll probably get a jump in the ammonia, in which case, you'll want to do water changes to keep it dilute until the proper bacteria can grow.

then of course, you'll get your nitrite jump, and you'll still need to do water changes, to keep it dilute for your lil fishies.

The next couple of weeks are going to be critical! Keep a close eye on the levels, and on your fish! good luck

 

[TankGirl]

Yes, this sounds like a cycling issue, so if you handle it like you are doing a fishy cycle, things will clear. Keep the toxic levels of ammonia and nitrite down with frequent partial water changes (read up on the nitrogen cycle - much about it on the web) and you will get things under control. Patience is the key, and it is hard to come by! Basically I am seconding Allivymar's and sweetsuvvyb's posts. Hear, Hear!

 

[Vegababy]

One more question...how much of a water change should I do each day? I have a 1 gallon (well, slightly bigger) that I use for this. Is one enough or should I be changing more?

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

You'll probably get some mixed opinions on this.

The most important part is keeping the levels of ammonia and/or nitrIte down by diluting with fresh water. But, you have to balance that with leaving some in there to stimulate the bacterial growth.

I would aim for 10% changes, which would be 2 gallons, and do them frequently (even every day, if your levels test high).

Once the tank has cycled, you can ease off, to 20% every 1 or 2 weeks again...as your ammonia/nitrite levels suggest.

 

[TankGirl]

Exactly. You need to maintain a certain level of ammonia to get the necessary bacteria going, but you need to protect your fish from ammonia and nitrite. It takes longer, but you save your fish. And that, after all, is the point!