cloudy water amongst other things

[Nafula]

Hey Ya'll!
I am rather new to having fish and had a few questions that I hope ya'll can answer. First, some background, I started my 10 gallon tank back in August after my crazy friend gave me a tiger barb that had been given to him for his 21st birthday. I now have a tiger barb, 2 rosie barbs, 2 gold barbs and an algae eater. Ok, first question- is that too many fish to have in a tank that size? How can you tell if a tank is overcrowded? Second, my tank in the last couple weeks has become extremely cloudy and has only gotten worse as time goes on...could this be caused by having too many fish and if so, why didn't it show up sooner? I have not had a problem with that until now. Is there something I can do to clear it up and if so what? That's it for now, thanks in advance!

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Welcome to AA Nafula!

What are your current water parameters (Ammonia, nitrite, Nitrate readings)?

I wouldn't say that your tank is overstocked, but I would say that it is overcrowded. The barbs are active fish and really need something larger than a 10 gal tank. Take into consideration the ultimate size of the fish and the aggressivness before purchasing. Aggressive fish need larger tanks because of their darting movements.

Can you describe the cloudiness? Is it green? White?

 

[europas_ice]

What kind of filter do you have on your tank?

The ammonia, nitrite, nitrate values are more important to your fish's health than whether there's algae (I think). But I can see that you'd want to get the algae cleared up for asthetic reasons. That's one problem I haven't had yet, fortunately!

 

[tropicfishman]

yes post your water paramters, the only way to tell if a tank is really overcrowded is by A.) the fish have nowhere to go lol, which will be your case soon with the pleco, and B.) the amount of waste produced in a week or a few days, with the pleco your going to havea ton, which is probally whats causing the cloudiness along with a high phosphate level, a little more info on your setup and parameters and we can all surely help you figure out whats wrong, Welcome to AA btw, this place is truely awesome!!!!!!!!

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Wait, is it a pleco or an algae eater?

 

[Nafula]

Definitely is a white cloudy...thanks for the info on overcrowding of the tank...in terms of levels and such, I have yet to buy a way to test that- could you recommend something? I didn't realize that was something that needed to be done...I do have a filter(a carbon filter)/heater/lamp...not much else I can say on that until I figure out how to test my water Oh, I have an algae eater I believe, what is the difference between that and a pleco? Also, when I first set up my tank I had about three fish die on me and heard something about a process that the tank goes through that tends to kill the fish, is there some way to avoid this stress on them but still set up a larger tank? Thanks for ya'lls patience!

 

[jcarlilesiu]

There is in fact a process when starting up a new tank and it is refered to as a "cycle". The ammonia produced by fish waste has to be broken down or else it will kill the fish. Over time bacteria builds up that starts a process to break it down until only nitrates are available in the tank, and these are ok for fish at moderate levels. It is important to change out about 25 - 30% of the water once a week to keep these nitrate levels under control. You can read more about this in the stickies.

The test kit of choice is the AP master kit. Its around 15 - 20 bucks and can be found at all petsmart, petco, and online (cheapiest). I would guess you are having some kind of bacterial build up that is causing the white water. Do you do water changes using a dechlor agent like prime?

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Aquarium Pharm makes an excellent Freshwater Master Test Kit. It can usually be found at most lfs or PetsMart and the like. But it can not be found at Wal-Mart (AFAIK).

A pleco has the body structure like the pics shown here

Algae Eaters look similar to the pics on the top row .

If you would like to upgrade your tank there is a much easier way to cycle. Fishless is a great alternative to cycling with fish since no harm is done from ammonia or nitrites.

*Edit* Forgot about the cloudy water issue. lol

If it is a white cloudiness, over time it will go away. It is common in new tanks. If it was tinted green it would be a different story. Do NOT use chemicals that claim to remove cloudiness. They tend to just make it worse. Keep up with water changes and it should go away on its own. When I had my first outbreak it lasted about 3 weeks and I dosed every imaginable chemical to take it away. I left for 2 days and when I came home it was crystal clear.

 

[europas_ice]

Here's a link to the test kit we're all raving about, maybe the pic will help:
http://www.aquariumguys.com/mastertestkit.html

 

[Nafula]

Thank you for the kit recommendation, I will go out and get one now...my fish is definitely an algae eater...ok, so I will wait for the cloudiness to go away(thanks for calming my fears!) and you mentioned a fishless cycle for setting up a new tank- there must be something more I have to do other than just let the tank sit for a while after I set it up, or is it that easy? Thanks again ya'll, this has been extremely helpful!!

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I wish it was that easy. Most lfs will give the impression that is how to cycle a tank. You may to read the following two articles. The fishless cycling article pertains to freshwater also, even though it says saltwater. I prefer dosing with pure ammonia in place of the rotting food or shrimp.

Fishless cycle
Nitrogen cycle

 

[Nafula]

How much pure ammonia should I add for a 20gal tank?

 

[europas_ice]

You want about 4ppm ammonia, so add a little, test the water, and see what it comes out at. Probably try in increments of 1/2 to 1 capful. (I know, it's not very specific, but it depends on what kind of ammonia you get.)

 

[Nafula]

so...I basically put in the ammonia in the beginning and it should sort itself out(adding the fish once the ammonia and nitrates are at zero) or should I do it in pieces...sry about all these questions, this is all new to me...

 

[noncentric]

Hi Nafula...you'll need to continually add ammonia, not just add it once. I haven't tried this method of fishless cycling, but I'm pretty sure that you will need to notice how much ammonia it takes to raise the ammonia to 4ppm - then add that same amount every day.

Eventually, the beneficial bacteria that breaksdown ammonia to nitrIte will develop and your ammonia levels will go down - and your nitrIte levels will go up. At this point, you'll still need to continue adding ammonia to keep feeding the bacteria.

After a bit longer, then the beneficial bacteria that breaksdown nitrIte to nitrAte will develop. NitrIte levels will decrease, nitrAte levels will increase - and ammonia should be at zero.

The cycle is considered 'finished' when you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrIte, and ANY nitrAtes. If there are no nitrAtes, then there is something wrong with the cycle. Once the cycle has finished, then you can add the fish - and keep monitoring the water quality everyday for a few days after that...then you can check the water less frequently (I do once or twice a week).

If you do a search on "fishless cycling", then you'll probably find a lot of additional info.

A few tips to speed up the cycling of the new tank:
- have the temperature around 82F while cycling...but you'll need to lower it before adding the fish
- move some gravel, decorations, or plants from your old tank (or a friend's established, disease-free tank) into the new tank...this will provide some beneficial bacteria and speed up their reproduction
- make sure to use dechlorinator...chlorine and chloramines can kill off some beneficial bacteria (btw - chlorine will evaporate from water after ~24 hours, but chloramines do not evaporate the same way)

Finally - the freshwater master test kit recommended here is great, but can be much more expensive in petstores than online. If you have a PetSmart, then print out the product from their webpage and take it to the store - they will match their online price.

Good luck!!!

 

[Nafula]

Wow- thank you so much!