Concerned about PH level.

[Punkymom]

Ok, I used to have 10 Tiger Barbs and 6 Rosy Barbs in my 55 gal tank. However, yesterday I decided I wanted the angels I originally bought the tank for in the first place. So I took the 16 fish (PITA to catch) to a LFS and used a store credit toward 2 Angels. Both are about 1" in length right now. I also bought one from PetSmart and that one is almost 2" long. I did a water change this morning and just out of curiosity (for the sake of the Angels) I tested the water...something I haven't done since I cycled. Ammonia is 0, Nitrites are 0, Nitrates are between 5 and 10 and PH is 7.8 or maybe something higher. Are the angels going to be alright with a PH that high? I also added Algae Fix to the tank this morning to help with an algae bloom that I tried to control using other methods that weren't working. Says it can be used with live plants so we'll see. Could the chemical have caused the PH to be that high? Normally it's around 7.0. Should I run Peat Moss through the filter? Also, I'm concerned with my bio filter since I went from having 20 fish to having 7. I'm going to add 2 more Angels that I plan on buying this weekend, but should I be putting anything into the tank like food for the filter or anything or should it be alright???

 

[madasafish]

Hmm... don't know about the algae fix doing that, though I think I recall someone else suggesting/positing that this happened in his/her tank a few months ago...

Your right to think that this pH is a bit too high for Angels--they like a moderately-acidic-to-neutral pH. Peat is a good idea, but avoid chemicals at all costs. I used to use them and think I can blame their Phosphate buffers for some early deaths in my tank (just a theory, though). But I now avoid all chemicals if I can...

As far as the biofilter goes, I wouldn't worry. You always have the additional decaying material in your tank to provide the nitrogenous waste your bacteria need. Perhaps consider feeding the fish slightly more when before the new guys arrive, and then feeding all the fish a little less when the new guys are in the tank. Total waste production shouldn't increase greatly with 2 new 1-inch angels, though. Prob. nothing to worry about.

 

[Punkymom]

I really don't want to use chemicals to alter the PH if I can help it. That's a PITA if you ask me...does anyone know how to go about the Peat Moss thing? I read somewhere that you boil it but beyond that I know nothing...

 

[TankGirl]

My tap water is pH 7.4-7.6, and I have kept angels without any problems, unless you want to spawn them. My eggs never would hatch, and I believe the pH was to blame. However, if the tank water is different from your tap, then do very small frequent water changes to get things back to normal. It is pH changes that are stressful to fish, so take it slowly. The water changes might also help the algae problem. I avoid chemicals, too, like Madasafish, and would try to solve that problem without them, since it will treat the symptoms but not the cause.

 

[madasafish]

Yup. Agreed. pH swings are really stressful to fish (though I've noticed temp swings to be even more fatal).

And it's a fine line to tread, when you know that you're keeping fish slightly out of their proper pH range... TankGirl's right that they'll be fine--of course!--though I usually prefer to accomodate a fish's pH preference. In which case, adding a small piece of peat to the filter and leaving it there would be a good idea (I've never done it...).

I dunno: I'm not really helping here, just ruminating.

 

[TankGirl]

Well I am right there with you on the pH thing, Madasa. When I started keeping angels I also started slowly building up a planted tank. It took a while, but now the pH is 6.8 or so due to the tank's maturity, driftwood and CO2 injection (CO2 is probably the easiest way to lower pH, at least for me). There is no question that the fish are happier with that pH, but they certainly grew and developed beautifully with the higher range.

Now I keep my Amazon types in the planted tanks, and my Africans in a tank that is buffered to within an inch of its life, bringing my pH up to 8.5. I have some kribs doing well in a very lightly planted tank that remains stable at pH 7.4.

I am comfortable maintaining different tanks with different pH values, but I would not have attempted this kind of thing when I first started out. It makes water changes a little trickier, too, and I am a water changin' fool!

I dunno: I'm not really helping here, just ruminating.

You are always helping!!

 

[Allivymar]

They'll be fine Punkymom; long as they aren't wild (and you'll never see wild angels in Petsmart *grin*) a pH of 7.8 is not horrific. Domestic angels have been known to BREED in a pH of 8.0! Obviously not a common occurance, but it has happened. As folks said, a sharp change in pH is much more of a prob then a slightly out of range pH.

 

[Punkymom]

They aren't wild. The big one is black marble and he's got red around his eye. One of the smaller ones is also black marble but he's got white around the eyes. The other little one is a Koi and is just so cuyyyyyuuuute!!!! They seem to be doing fine. I fed them a little this morning and the little koi took a few bites. The others tried to...but they were kind of taken by surprise by the food. Well, since I'm not planning on breeding them (for now...since I don't have the proper housing for such babies) I guess I'll just leave the PH alone. I acclimated them really slowly, letting the water drip in slowly over about 30 min. They hid for a while but are coming around. If I walk in the room slowly they come over to check me out.

 

[Allivymar]

Oh excellent! If they are already curious about you, thats a great sign *grin* give em another coupla weeks and they'll start wagging their tails in anticipation of food everytime you peer into the tank LOL

And pics!! I wanna see.

 

[Punkymom]

LOL. I will try and get some pics of them. My digital camera isn't the greatest and I'm impatient to keep trying to get good ones...but I'll do my best. I caved and bought 3 today. I couldn't resist. One of them is the longer veil tailed type and one of them has a lyre tail type thing going on and the other one is another koi. They're all doing well. I know 6 is probably pushing it, but the only other fish in there are all bottom dwellers so I think they'll be fine.

 

[TankGirl]

With 6 you are almost defintely going to get a pair. For me, when mine paired off things got a little nasty for the other fish, but I happened to get 2 pairs out of 4 baby angels! Each pair took an opposite end of the tank. I think Allivymar has a group of adults in her 55 and that is working out fine. If you get a pair they will definitely lay eggs, but they may or may not hatch. It was just as well mine did not hatch, since I would have to get even more tanks than I already have!

Anyway, you will have a while before any of that starts happening, and while they are small they will school together. I am so tempted whenever I go to the LFS, but I am going to wait for after I move, and get Allivymar to ship me some of hers babies!

 

[Punkymom]

Well, one of them died last night. It's to be expected with any fish I guess, but it makes me kind of sad... I hope no more of them die or anything. They seem to be doing well, so we'll see.

 

[deli_conker]

hmmm

This thread makes me wonder about my tank...

My Ph comes out of the tap right around 7.0
I have a crushed coral substrate to help raise Ph for my africans.
The tank Ph is right around 7.8.

When I do my weekly 25% water changes, is it too much of a Ph swing for them?

By the end of the week, my nitrAtes are only at around 5 ppm. Should I do smaller changes as to not dilute the more alkaline water?