Confirm as Bolivian ram?

[Ardynas]

We have a pair of GBR's but also have what I believe is a Bolivian. The way he spars and fights over territory with the male GBR, he acts like a male.

So my question is... Can anyone confirm that this is a Bolivian Male?

White balance is slightly off.

thanks!

 

[BHead707]

looks like a Bolivian to me

 

[severum mama]

1000% positive that this is a Bolivian ram. IMO it will not be possible to determine the sex for sure, without venting the fish. The guidelines that you read about for sexing this fish are just that; guidelines- and you can't really trust them.

 

[BHead707]

1000% positive that this is a Bolivian ram. IMO it will not be possible to determine the sex for sure, without venting the fish. The guidelines that you read about for sexing this fish are just that; guidelines- and you can't really trust them.

ive heard this is the same for GBRs as well. do you agree that venting is the only way to sex them as well unless they are breeding?

 

[severum mama]

I dunno, I think GBRs are MUCH easier to sex, personally. They also breed like crazy so that could be part of it. Terrible parents generally, but they breed like crazy.

 

[Ardynas]

Thank you for the responses.

I'd like to find a mate for this Bolivian. But if I drop say two or three in with him to pair off with, I'll never be able to catch them without pulling everything out of my tank. Probably should do this in a small QT tank and not my main tank.

 

[bs6749]

100% sure it is a Bolivian ram and it looks to me like it is a male. Bolivians are much harder to sex than GBR's, which are relatively easy, especially when the stock is good quality. It's when you run into the Asian bred varieties that sexing becomes difficult, but it is really pointless anyway since those Asian bred fish are exposed to hormones for quicker coloring that they usually die within 4 months of bringing them home from the LFS. These inferior rams have longer bodies than nice stock so it is easy to stay away from them.

 

[maxwellag]

I know and think two different things.
I know it's a bolivian ram. I think it's a female. Usually males have two black dots on the side behind the gills, and the females have one big black spot. Males also have more visible vertical lines in their rear ends than females. Also in that picture you can see a little ovipositor that female rams have.

 

[maxwellag]

Here's my pair of bolivian rams. The male is on the right. I will post a zoomed in picture so it's more clear.

 

[maxwellag]

Here's the zoomed in pic, and another pic of my male. As you can see, he has light blue stripes on his rear end. Females also have this, but not as pronounced.

 

[absolutangel04]

IMO, it is totally, definitely a Bolivian male. There aren't any marking that reliably identify Bolivian males versus females, so they are indeed harder to sex than gbr. I look at the belly curve to tell the difference and that method hasn't let me down with any of the ones I have owned. Its harder to tell in juvenile fish before they develop their full adult shape, and some individual fish look more ambiguous than others, but I would say that is definitely a male.

 

[maxwellag]

IMO, it is totally, definitely a Bolivian male. There aren't any marking that reliably identify Bolivian males versus females, so they are indeed harder to sex than gbr. I look at the belly curve to tell the difference and that method hasn't let me down with any of the ones I have owned. Its harder to tell in juvenile fish before they develop their full adult shape, and some individual fish look more ambiguous than others, but I would say that is definitely a male.

But it has an ovipositor... Gosh these are hard! Lol

 

[Ardynas]

Wow... that's a nice looking pair of Bolivians. I had thought mine was a male just because he spars with the other GBR male in my tank. Would a female Bolivian be territorial with a Male GBR or just hang out?

So males 'often' have the two spots on the side? Maybe I should try bringing home a male (or two) then!

 

[maxwellag]

Wow... that's a nice looking pair of Bolivians. I had thought mine was a male just because he spars with the other GBR male in my tank. Would a female Bolivian be territorial with a Male GBR or just hang out?

So males 'often' have the two spots on the side? Maybe I should try bringing home a male (or two) then!

It's not always, but almost every male I have seen has two spots. How old is yours? When they're young their spots are just one big one (both male and female) but when they mature the spots on the males split.
I have never seen a female with two spots before.

 

[absolutangel04]

But it has an ovipositor... Gosh these are hard! Lol

Males usually have a visible breeding tube. In theory, in males the breeding tube is smaller and more pointed while the female's ovipositor is supposed to be more rounded and often larger. I have found the difference between them too subtle to be totally accurate as a sole means of sexing these guys.

 

[bs6749]

Okay, first of all on the patterning of Bolivians, two spots may be common on all male Bolivians in one tank at the LFS, and they get them from one breeder, and the fish undoubtedly had the same parents. Patterns aren't always a good indicator as I've seen rams with 2-3 spots on their bodies that covered almost 75% of the surface area and and they are "supposed to" only have one or two per side.

Secondly, that breeding tube that you call an ovipositor does not look like a typical ovipositor in my experience. Male breeding tubes are more triangular and pointed as is the one in this picture. Female breeding tubes are generally blunt/rounded like the end of an open pipe.

 

[Ardynas]

How old is yours?

I've only had this Ram for about two months. The yellowing behind the gill area is starting to get a little brighter. Super cool personality.

 

[bs6749]

Rams are very cool like that as are many cichlids. They tend to have a personality and are aware of their surroundings. My discus would recognize my from 20 feet away and go to their feeding spots when they saw me at morning and at night...they knew me as a food giver lol.

 

[maxwellag]

Okay, first of all on the patterning of Bolivians, two spots may be common on all male Bolivians in one tank at the LFS, and they get them from one breeder, and the fish undoubtedly had the same parents. Patterns aren't always a good indicator as I've seen rams with 2-3 spots on their bodies that covered almost 75% of the surface area and and they are "supposed to" only have one or two per side.

Secondly, that breeding tube that you call an ovipositor does not look like a typical ovipositor in my experience. Male breeding tubes are more triangular and pointed as is the one in this picture. Female breeding tubes are generally blunt/rounded like the end of an open pipe.

The two spot experience I have had has been at lots of LFSs and websites. As I said before, I said I think it's a female. Not positive. It it only two months old (from Lfs) , so it probably hasn't matured yet. There is no way to be sure.

 

[Wonder8331]

I have 2 Bolivian rams also I love them I jut noticed today that one of them changed! He had 2 black spots and now he's got stripes anyone know what tht means?