Confused about nitrate

[Potluck]

Even though my Nitrate are 30 right now dosing comprehensive 2x weekly at 5ml, excel once weekly and 3 flourish root tabs people are telling me I can get my Nitrate to <5-10 without gravel vacuuming... How lol? Isn't the Nitrate the left over food , waste, plant matter etc etc that's in the gravel? not concerned with the nitrates but I'm just trying to learn more on the hobby

 

[coralbandit]

You will remove nitrates when you change water even without vacuuming.
Although I am sure some of the nutrient is more 'concentrated' in the sub if it is allowed to get trapped in it a large amount of it will be removed with simple waterchanges...
But when dosing ferts you are not always trying to lower the trates...?
Some with planted tanks say they NEED to add nitrates,po4 and the such.
Many planted keepers just do 50% once week on schedule like adding their daily dose...

 

[Potluck]

You will remove nitrates when you change water even without vacuuming.
Although I am sure some of the nutrient is more 'concentrated' in the sub if it is allowed to get trapped in it a large amount of it will be removed with simple waterchanges...
But when dosing ferts you are not always trying to lower the trates...?
Some with planted tanks say they NEED to add nitrates,po4 and the such.
Many planted keepers just do 50% once week on schedule like adding their daily dose...

Yeah I have really chunky thick pebble gravel not sand or soil or even finer crushed substrate so debris gets trapped in there easily so if I didn't gravel vac all that stuff would be left, I'm not trying to lower them as 30 is just about what people dose weekly for planted tanks, I was just confused on how in the world would someone with my substrate set up achieve 0? With plants don't you have to have Nitrates from what I've read is very important.

 

[Goldguru]

not knowing your set up.
want 0 nitrates,introduce more plants.
will plants grow @ 0 Nitrate ? Yes
Why ,plants would rather consume ammonia but due to that being unfriendly pple use KNO3.

Ammonia is whats produced 1st by the wastes in the tank,we go to great lengths to create bacteria to convert them to Nitrates,however the plants have to work just as hard to convert back to ammonia.

so why dose KNO3?
people are impatient,they want their plants to visually grow daily so they get sucked into a routine of ferts & CO2 & high output lights etc. some chose this path to grow uncommon plants,to each his own.

will a non-CO2/high light tank look as good Sure,however it would take patience & lots of time,and some high light plants wont grow etc.

so zero A & N's is not an indicator of much other than the plants/light in the tank are in sufficient population to consume what gets generated.

as for coarse substrate as the waste rots it creates more Ammonia & also creates a larger bacteria base (so long as the tank has current to oxygenate the gravel),rooting plants into coarser sub can be difficult I would imagine as well.

 

[Caliban07]

Yeah I have really chunky thick pebble gravel not sand or soil or even finer crushed substrate so debris gets trapped in there easily so if I didn't gravel vac all that stuff would be left, I'm not trying to lower them as 30 is just about what people dose weekly for planted tanks, I was just confused on how in the world would someone with my substrate set up achieve 0? With plants don't you have to have Nitrates from what I've read is very important.

Under stock, feed sparingly, perform large water changes often (provided the tap doesn't contain lots of nitrate), keep tank free of organic matter and plant heavy with lots of fast growing stem or floating plants.

 

[Potluck]

Okay I'm all sorts of confused lol, I always thought nitrates is what the plants needed to thrive and grow but now I'm told it's ammonia... I need to take a botanist class lol

 

[Potluck]

Gonna go get like 4 more Anubias 2 big swords, 5 ferns, 2 vals and a partridge in a pear tree hahaha

 

[Potluck]

not knowing your set up.
want 0 nitrates,introduce more plants.
will plants grow @ 0 Nitrate ? Yes
Why ,plants would rather consume ammonia but due to that being unfriendly pple use KNO3.

Ammonia is whats produced 1st by the wastes in the tank,we go to great lengths to create bacteria to convert them to Nitrates,however the plants have to work just as hard to convert back to ammonia.

so why dose KNO3?
people are impatient,they want their plants to visually grow daily so they get sucked into a routine of ferts & CO2 & high output lights etc. some chose this path to grow uncommon plants,to each his own.

will a non-CO2/high light tank look as good Sure,however it would take patience & lots of time,and some high light plants wont grow etc.

so zero A & N's is not an indicator of much other than the plants/light in the tank are in sufficient population to consume what gets generated.

as for coarse substrate as the waste rots it creates more Ammonia & also creates a larger bacteria base (so long as the tank has current to oxygenate the gravel),rooting plants into coarser sub can be difficult I would imagine as well.

I have a 55 gallon, 1 aquaclear 110, 1 aquaclear 70 1 air stone, thick pebble gravel, not alot of fish 13 small fish in a 55, 7 lemon tetras, 2 Buenos Aires, 1 turquoise rainbow, phantom tetra And a Calico BN

I still haven't got an answer to what my light is im assuming low, it is led but lower end... Elive 48 " stocked full of pods

Plants not to many 2 swords and 5 little Anubias that I split off one, so technically 1 split into 5

Flourish root tabs
Flourish comprehensive 2x weekly
Excel once or twice weekly

 

[Caliban07]

Okay I'm all sorts of confused lol, I always thought nitrates is what the plants needed to thrive and grow but now I'm told it's ammonia... I need to take a botanist class lol

Plants need nitrogen it's IDEAL for the plant to receive both forms nitrate NO3 and ammonium NH4 and this happens in planted systems with fauna and or organic material but we can just dose NO3 if need be. A bit like dosing the water column or having a nutrient rich substrate. Both are ideal but not compulsory.

The beauty of dosing NO3 to achieve a desired figure is that you can miss out on all that bacterial activity and O2 drain on the system that comes when organic matter is broken down in to ammonium and nitrified through to nitrate. It still happens of course but all tanks are different and plant uptake rates vary and because of this we need to ensure that the plants are not N limited.

20-30ppm is a good figure to aim for weekly. Nitrate test kits are not that great from what I have read and so by measuring my doses fairly accurately with measuring spoons and scales I know what I am putting in.

In a planted system. Trying to get shut of the major macro nutrients undermines the fundamentals of plant growth.

 

[Potluck]

Does it help that I don't gravel vac on the planted side? I do the other half that's not planted, I'm starting slow cause this is totally new to me, so I'm just trying out the easier plants in low quantity until I know for sure I can grow them.

 

[Caliban07]

Does it help that I don't gravel vac on the planted side? I do the other half that's not planted, I'm starting slow cause this is totally new to me, so I'm just trying out the easier plants in low quantity until I know for sure I can grow them.

I think you'll find the majority of plant keepers don't gravel vac. Having said that most will use a finer substrate than yours that can be easily colonised by beneficial microorganisms that will breakdown uneaten food, leaf litter and other wastes.

You always want to avoid anaerobic conditions. This is why you need good flow. If you are concerned about waste getting trapped under the larger stones just do more water changes to offset what is trapped and keep o2 levels high.

 

[Potluck]

I think you'll find the majority of plant keepers don't gravel vac. Having said that most will use a finer substrate than yours that can be easily colonised by beneficial microorganisms that will breakdown uneaten food, leaf litter and other wastes.

You always want to avoid anaerobic conditions. This is why you need good flow. If you are concerned about waste getting trapped under the larger stones just do more water changes to offset what is trapped and keep o2 levels high.

Well I have 14.5 turnover rate on my filtration, so my flow is pretty strong, I don't gravel vac by the plants cause my tabs are there and I don't want to disturb them, plus I have a air stone on low if I turn it all the way up the top of my water looks like it's boiling, I'm not having an issue with anything tank or fish wise what I am having a problem with is understanding all the lingo of the plant needs.

I know I need new substrate which I'm still working on, I do not want sand or soil, so I'm looking into small crushed gravel, I know I can't do it all at once or I will more than likely cycle my tank even with 2 high end hob's.

So if I switch to finer with the flow of my tank I won't need to vac?

 

[Caliban07]

Well I have 14.5 turnover rate on my filtration, so my flow is pretty strong, I don't gravel vac by the plants cause my tabs are there and I don't want to disturb them, plus I have a air stone on low if I turn it all the way up the top of my water looks like it's boiling, I'm not having an issue with anything tank or fish wise what I am having a problem with is understanding all the lingo of the plant needs.

I know I need new substrate which I'm still working on, I do not want sand or soil, so I'm looking into small crushed gravel, I know I can't do it all at once or I will more than likely cycle my tank even with 2 high end hob's.

So if I switch to finer with the flow of my tank I won't need to vac?

You don't need to vac. Just get a more bacteria friendly substrate that is less likely to trap debris [emoji106]

If you change lots of water often then there shouldn't be enough time for things to turn sour. The test of you setup seems solid.

 

[Fresh2o]

I've vacuumed the substrate once or twice in four years. Those were during complete rescapes.
Whatever is in the substrate now probably contributes to the nitrate levels (I've removed nitrates from my fertilizer regimen).

 

[Potluck]

I've vacuumed the substrate once or twice in four years. Those were during complete rescapes.
Whatever is in the substrate now probably contributes to the nitrate levels (I've removed nitrates from my fertilizer regimen).

What substrate would you recommend besides sand or soil? I know I have to change little at a time and put some of my old gravel in mesh bags into the tank so I don't cycle , well that's what I was told, and change 1/3 every couple weeks.

 

[Fresh2o]

Idk. I've only used EcoComplete in the last few years.