Confused with Prime and ammonia level

[FoxRob]

I do have a Aqueon water changer, I did the buckets for awhile and it stinks to change that much water 5 gallons at a time.

 

[JustinKScott]

You'd be surprised. I run a water purification company, and the average American home has more chlorine in their water than a swimming pool has. It's just one of those examples where ignorance is bliss.

Not chorine... Ammonia. I'm actually very lucky as I always test 0 chorine/ammo in my tap.

He says he tests 1.0 ammo in his water? A quick google search says he is not the only one... How is this healthy?

I guess the saying is right; conserve water, drink beer?

 

[eco23]

Not chorine... Ammonia. I'm actually very lucky as I always test 0 chorine/ammo in my tap.

He says he tests 1.0 ammo in his water? A quick google search says he is not the only one... How is this healthy?

I guess the saying is right; conserve water, drink beer?

Drinking beer is always a fantasic idea, haha. The majority of municipalities have switched from chlorine to chloramines (a chlorine / ammonia mixture). You must be in one of the areas where they still treat with free chlorine.

Nobody says tap water is healthy...that's why I run a successful business. Trust me, unless you want to drop some $ on a whole house water purification system...I'd stop researching what is actually in your tap water, lol.

 

[FoxRob]

Beer is not a good friend of mine anymore...**** getting old.
Anyhow the water here does test at 1.0 ammonia with my API master kit.
Our Public Works Commission states on there web site they add ammonia to our drinking water the document is 151 pages long I'm still looking for the levels.

 

[FoxRob]

Ok I just checked my water levels in both of my tanks
55 gallon
PH 6.6(tap is 7.6)
Ammonia is .25ppm
NitrIte is 0ppm
NitrAte is 5ppm
KH 35.8ppm or 2 drops(API hardness test kit)
GH 53.7ppm or 3 drops

29 gallon
PH 6.8
Ammonia 2.0(fish appear to be healthy haven't lost any)
NitrIte 0ppm
NitrAte 5ppm
KH 35.8ppm
GH 53.7ppm

This is almost 24hrs since last PWC. Water temp is 77* in both tanks.

Fish in the 29 gal is 2 kissing gourami's(my wife wanted them and she didn't know how big they are going to get) 3 cory cats, 6 tiger barbs and a common pleco(got this one for it's size since the tigers were nippiing our bristlenose pleco in the 55 gal)

 

[eco23]

Ok I just checked my water levels in both of my tanks
55 gallon
PH 6.6(tap is 7.6)
Ammonia is .25ppm
NitrIte is 0ppm
NitrAte is 5ppm
KH 35.8ppm or 2 drops(API hardness test kit)
GH 53.7ppm or 3 drops

29 gallon
PH 6.8
Ammonia 2.0(fish appear to be healthy haven't lost any)
NitrIte 0ppm
NitrAte 5ppm
KH 35.8ppm
GH 53.7ppm

This is almost 24hrs since last PWC. Water temp is 77* in both tanks.

The reason the fish are not suffering is likely due to the binding affect of the Prime as we've been discussing...but it needs to be dealt with very quickly before the Prime's detoxifying affect ends. In the 29 gallon I'd suggest doing a minimum 50% pwc ASAP. I'd normally sugesst two back to back pwc's...but since your tap water has 1.0, it would kind of defeat the purpose.

Do me another favor...test the pH directly from the tap, and also leave a glass of water sitting out for 24 hours and test pH at that point as well.

 

[JustinKScott]

Your buffers are pretty low (soft). My discus would love for my water to be that low. Course they'd not like the ammo...

Watch for a ph crash.

 

[FoxRob]

I just set up the water changer, the tap water stays at 7.6 right out of the tap and 24 hrs after.

PH crash? My PH does drop compared to what it tests out of the tap.

 

[eco23]

I just set up the water changer, the tap water stays at 7.6 right out of the tap and 24 hrs after.

PH crash? My PH does drop compared to what it tests out of the tap.

Nitrifying bacteria excrete acidic waste and if your water is low in buffers (alkalinity /kH) it can cause downward trends in pH. As long as you are diligent in weekly pwc's an actual pH crash won't be likely. You've just got to maintain a good pwc and maintenance routine.

 

[FoxRob]

Right now it's been daily PWC going on a week. Should I double dose the 29 gal with prime?

 

[eco23]

Right now it's been daily PWC going on a week. Should I double dose the 29 gal with prime?

I would dose the Prime for the total volume of the tank...not just the amount you are replacing. That'll be sufficient IMO to temporarily detoxify the ammo and no2.

 

[FoxRob]

Ok, just how often should you vacuum the gravel? Should I do it every PWC or would once a week be good? I've been doing it once every 2 weeks.

 

[eco23]

Ok, just how often should you vacuum the gravel? Should I do it every PWC or would once a week be good? I've been doing it once every 2 weeks.

I vacuum weekly, but I have a different technique. The back and mid-ground of my tank is planted and the front is open swimming area. When I feed, I turn off the filter so the food doesn't get blown all around. The fish have learned to come to the front of the tank to eat, and this way any food that makes it to the substrate is only in the front, open area. That way when I gravel vac I can just work on the front area without having to over clean the entire tank. Any food that actually makes it back to the plants can actually provide nutrients for them...but only minimal amounts get back there.

 

[FoxRob]

I've been trying to get plants to grow in my tank most of them is in the back too, but my rosey barb's and rainbow shark have other ideas. The gouramis will nibble what ever makes it to the top. Same in the 29 gal the tigers have taken to plant eating too, I guess since they cannot pick on the other fish.

 

[eco23]

I've been trying to get plants to grow in my tank most of them is in the back too, but my rosey barb's and rainbow shark have other ideas. The gouramis will nibble what ever makes it to the top. Same in the 29 gal the tigers have taken to plant eating too, I guess since they cannot pick on the other fish.

You can use the same technique with fake plants as well to help keep things tidy. You've just got to remember to turn the filter back on after feeding time and if you have any bottom feeders it's best to use fast sinking pellets or actually get your (super clean and non soapy) hands down in the tank to make sure the food will get down to fish like Corys without the top feeders gobbling it up first.

 

[FoxRob]

OK thanks for the tip, no fake plants they just don't look right after having real plants in the tank.

I figured since the ammonia level is double what my tap water is that I should just go ahead and do back to back water changes.

 

[eco23]

OK thanks for the tip, no fake plants they just don't look right after having real plants in the tank.

I figured since the ammonia level is double what my tap water is that I should just go ahead and do back to back water changes.

Pwc's are never ever a bad idea as long as performed properly...unfortunately with your taps ammo content, you're basically replacing ammo filled water with more ammo filled water. Thank the techs over at Seachem for Prime in situations like this.

 

[koz]

I wouldnt use prime during cycling coz it just confuses the reading and you have to redose for the entire tank on every water change, to keep the Ammonia bonded in the water thats left in the tank.
Dont get me wrong i am in the middle of my fish in cycle (day 30) and once fully cycled i will start to use prime, because of its reputation and value for money.
Apparently Nutrafin AquaPlus works in the same way as prime.
bonds the ammonia and then releases it about 36-48 hours later.

I have been using Tetra AquaSafe and it been fine for me in removing Chlorine, i dont have Chloramine in my water source, although AquaSafe does remove chloramine.
I belive with you having Ammonia reading in your source water, it contains Chloramine. (you may be able to check this on your suppliers website).
I can.
Chloramines are derivatives of ammonia by substitution of one, two or three hydrogen atoms with chlorine atoms.
Prime states it requires a double dose to remove chloramine

If you are doing a fish in cycle?
keep going at it and eventually you will get a reduction in Ammonia just dose it right if your using Prime. regular 10-20 % WC are the key and try to maintain your Ammonia reading below 0.25 and not above 1.0 as this will seriously endanger your fish.
I always do a 20% WC when i have readings around 0.5 (you still need Ammonia in your tank while cycling to encourage bacteria growth)

fish in cycling can take longer than fishless cycling (can be up to 2 months)

 

[FoxRob]

Very true fresh water is better usually.

 

[eco23]

I wouldnt use prime during cycling coz it just confuses the reading and you have to redose for the entire tank on every water change, to keep the Ammonia bonded in the water thats left in the tank.
Dont get me wrong i am in the middle of my fish in cycle (day 30) and once fully cycled i will start to use prime, because of its reputation and value for money.
Apparently Nutrafin AquaPlus works in the same way as prime.
bonds the ammonia and then releases it about 36-48 hours later.

I have been using Tetra AquaSafe and it been fine for me in removing Chlorine, i dont have Chloramine in my water source, although AquaSafe does remove chloramine.

If you are doing a fish in cycle?
keep going at it and eventually you will get a reduction in Ammonia just dose it right if your using Prime. regular 10-20 % WC are the key and try to maintain your Ammonia reading below 0.25 and not above 1.0 as this will seriously endanger your fish.
I always do a 20% WC when i have readings around 0.5

fish in cycling can take longer than fishless cycling (can be up to 2 months)

Can I ask you to explain your theory on Prime a little more in depth? No matter the brand of conditioner, ammonia will be bound and temporarily rendered non-toxic...but it will still appear as an ammonia reading on API test kits.

Also, .25 is the benchmark of safe(ish) ammonia levels...and since a 50% pwc would reduce the level by half, if you have a .50 ammo reading I would encourage you to perform a 50% pwc at minimum.