Consistently Low pH

[meelah]

:? I have recently moved from CA to VA, and am suddenly having a very hard time keeping my pH between 6.8 and 7.0. Unfortunately, my pH seems to be sitting at under 6.0. I attempted to raise my pH with some chems, only to find that the pH went right back to under 6.0 the next day. My fishies are not currently happy right now, and I could use some advice (hopefully with an inexpensive solution). Here's my setup:

55gal
fluval 403 (bottom level mechanical media, mid level mechanical media and carbon and a small amount of peat granules (a few tablespoons), top level foam media)
air pump with airstones and spray bar
4 rainbows
2 yoyo loaches
3 clown loaches
3 otocinclus
3 bolivian rams

My pH levels dropped about two weeks ago. I then did a thorough gravel wash, and a 20-25% water change. The following week I reduced the amount of peat in the filter to just a few tablespoons, and changed a single foam block. Yesterday I added a dosage of pH UP, after a measurement, it was clearly in the above 6 range (but not ideal). Today I tested before adding my second dose, and saw that the pH was below 6 again.

I had this tank, with the same components (except substrate and fish) in CA for several years with zero problems maintaining pH...I am noticing that my fish are behaving somewhat agressively, and their gills appear to be too red for my likings (or theirs, I'm sure). Should I remove the remaining few tablespoons of peat? I added it at the request of my aquarist (who has since transplanted himself a few hundred miles away) to soften the water and lower the pH (which comes from tap above 8.0). Could there be something else going on? Please help...I'm stressing

 

[wabyrd]

I've used the water softener pillows to soften the water and they work great. They're relatively inexpensive, so I'd buy a couple since they have to be recharged after 24 hours of use. That way you can put one in while the other recharges.
As for the pH, I would try the Proper pH tabs. They help raise the pH to the desired level and have buffers to help keep it at that level. They have a few pH levels to choose from so you can get whats right for you.

 

[meelah]

Would I need to use a few to get the pH at the proper level, or would it raise the pH from what it is now to about 7? I just don't want to put the fish thru a pH shock.

Thanks so much for your quick reply, btw

 

[Biggen]

First question I need to ask is: Is the tank cycled? This is important as if you have a high ammonia or nitrite level, as the pH goes up in an un-cycled tank, the toxicity of both ammonia and nitrite goes up as well. If the pH is raised naturally, as with water changes, then this probably won't be a problem. But if you start putting in pH up (Sodium Bicarbonate) and try to raise it too fast, then we will have more problems than we want.

Ok now for some advice on what I would do on a cycled tank.

I would remove all the peat and then do regular water changes for the next few weeks. What is the kH of your tap water? The reason I ask is if your tap water comes out with a pH of 8.0, then eventually, your tank pH should rise a bit assuming you have 3 or more degrees of kH.

You have to remember that in a cycled tank, the end result of the nitrification cycle is nitric acid. Acid introduced into a tank uses up the kH and causes the pH to drop a bit. This is why your average tank will have a pH value lower than that of the tap water used to fill it. You may find that a balance will be achieved around 7-8 pH without using anything in the water as long as you do regular water changes and your tank has fully cycled.

Again, go ahead and remove the peat and then do the regular water changes you normally do over the next few weeks. Monitor the pH and see what it rises to. If it goes above 7.5 or so, then we can look at something else to stabilize it out.

 

[loganj]

Definitely need to know the hardness of the water. This sounds to me like a case of soft, alkaline water. Although it has a high pH, it has little buffering capacity. This means that even a small amount of acid will cause the pH to drop significantly. If you don't have a test kit for hardness, you might try calling your water utility...they should be able to tell you. JMHO.

 

[meelah]

The tank spiked (cycled) about three months ago. Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia all test at normal levels at this point. Only the pH is being nasty.

I do not know the kH of the tap water; can you let me know where I can find a kH test kit (and actually what it is for)? I already perform regular water changes (20-25% every week), and wash the gravel twice a month. I also perform a filter cleaning once a month to either wash or replace carbon, and rinse or replace foam (and a rinse of everything else).

I got to thinking about things that I changed when I set up my tank here. That would be my fish, substrate, and cleaning bucket. I (unfortunately) purchased some very cheapo white gravel from Wal-Mart so I could hurry up and set up my tank, and now wish I had not. I am using a new plastic bucket to clean (only use it for the fish). I read in another older post that bad gravel can cause pH problems, but really want to verify whether or not either of those things could be a possible reason for crappy pH.

I suppose the thing that bothers me the most, is that even after my spike my pH levels were totally cool for three months - running between 6.8 and 7.0 without the need of chemicals. Then somewhere, in the period of 5 days it jumped up to 6 and lower.[/quote]

 

[Biggen]

Nitrite, Ammonia all test at normal levels at this point.

When you say normal levels, your mean zero right? In a tank that has a biological filter working in a normal fashion, ammonia and nitrite should always be zero.

I do not know the kH of the tap water; can you let me know where I can find a kH test kit (and actually what it is for)?

Without going into great detail, KH is the buffering capacity of the water. Buffering capacity refers to water's ability to keep the pH stable as acids or bases are added. KH and pH are intertwined with one another. In a tank that has a low KH (i.e. less than 3 degrees of KH) your pH may never be stable as nitrification will eat away at the KH and cause the pH to go down with it. Typically as you increase KH the pH goes up as well. Likewise, when the KH goes down, there is a possiblity the pH will fall with it, although this all depends upon how much KH the water has in the first place.

This is all really technical and boring, but the point I am trying to make is that when your KH is low, your pH can go up and down easily. I suspect that in your tank, your KH is super low and this is why no matter what what you have done to raise it, it keeps going back down to 6.0.

Again, I think you should remove the peat and just do regular water changes. You say your tap water comes out at a pH value of 8, right? As long as your tap water has greater than 3 degrees of KH, your pH in your tank will begin to rise. It has to...

You can find test kits for KH in just about all fish stores. I would suggest you pick one up. Telling us what the KH value of your tap and tank water is would be most helpful. All the advice I am giving your is based on your KH being 3 dKH or greater. If it's not, than we will have to figure out something else.

BTW, if you want a good primer in water chemistry, go here: http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

 

[meelah]

Ok, I went to my fish store earlier today and got a kH kit. I will let you know the results after I eat

 

[meelah]

When you say normal levels, your mean zero right? In a tank that has a biological filter working in a normal fashion, ammonia and nitrite should always be zero.

Yes, the ammonia and nitrite are at zero. The nitrates are under 20 (but not zero).

Ok. So I just tested the kH of the water, and it is at 1 degree dkH. What I do not understand (the kit was not very clear) is whether or not this means my water is hard or soft. Can you help me out on this? Btw, I just removed the remaining peat.

Just an FYI, when I was at the aquarist today, I saw some really cool loaches that are all black with some long, large, oval shaped yellow spots. The guy working there said that they have been recently discovered and aren't even named yet. They were selling for 18.95 a piece, and were pretty large. Anyone else seen these?

 

[Biggen]

Ok. So I just tested the kH of the water, and it is at 1 degree dkH. What I do not understand (the kit was not very clear) is whether or not this means my water is hard or soft.

Doesn't mean either. Carbonate Hardness (KH) and General Hardness (GH) are totally different. Where you able to check out that link I gave you earlier about water chemistry? It should clear up a lot of questions.

KH just measures the amount of buffering capacity. GH actually measures the water's hardness level. When you hear people talking about how hard or soft their water is, they are talking about the GH, not the KH.

Ok, with that low of a KH, it is no wonder your pH is swinging around. Where you able to test the KH of your tap water? I am betting your tap water has a KH of above 3 dKH or so as you said earlier:

my pH levels were totally cool for three months - running between 6.8 and 7.0 without the need of chemicals.

Something ate your buffer up in the 3 months time. Have you been doing regular water changes? You may have to do w/c every week in order to replace the alkalinity that is lost during nitrification. Every two weeks might not be cutting it.


You can also raise it artificially, but I think that if your tap water has a good KH then that will be your best bet... Messing with chemicals will just complicate matters...

 

[reberly]

Wouldn't that peat moss have helped to lower the KH so far? It softens and lowers alkalinity doesn't it?

Ryan

 

[Biggen]

Nope. The peat will only lower the GH of the water. Should not affect the KH or pH.

 

[meelah]

Sorry for the delayed response, my pops went into the hospital last week, so I've been up there quite a bit...But anyhow...

Ok, with that low of a KH, it is no wonder your pH is swinging around. Where you able to test the KH of your tap water? I am betting your tap water has a KH of above 3 dKH or so as you said earlier:

I tested the kH of the tap water, and I'd have to say it's between 2 and 3 dkH (the water changed slightly at 2, but big time at 3).

Something ate your buffer up in the 3 months time. Have you been doing regular water changes? You may have to do w/c every week in order to replace the alkalinity that is lost during nitrification. Every two weeks might not be cutting it.

I have been changing the water on a weekly basis though (20-25%). However, I only clean the gravel twice a month. One cleaning is just cursory (around the decorations and such), the second cleaning I actually remove my decorations and such. I also rinse my media and change my foam in my canister at this point.

I guess to be on the safe side (even though almost everyone here has recommended that I not do this), I ordered some pH buffer from the Dr's Foster and Smith website. I haven't used it yet, but am just generally worried about my fishes' overall health. I even got different substrate for the tank (I'm moving into a house at the end of this month, and figured I'd change it then), so I can get rid of that cheap Walmart stuff. I'm rambling at this point

I have not had opportunity to check out the water chem link at this point, b/c of my pops' hospital visit, but intend on reading that now.