Cycling

[MarkA123]

So I went to petco today to look for some aquarium decorations. Unfortunately they had nothing that looked natural which was what I was looking for. However I asked the aquarium manager some questions about my aquarium and eventually we started talking about cycling. I told him I was going to do fishless cycling with pure ammonia and he strogly suggested against it. He gave me several reasons why I shouldn't cycle the tank with pure ammonia or any other chemicals. His argument was very convincing. In fact he said if I agreed not to use the pa (I'm going to call pure ammonia pa for short lol!) he would pay for the cycling fish with his own money! He's persuaded me against pa and I've decided to do a natural cycle with fish. He said not to use tetras, angelfish, and some others. He recommended I use I forgot I think it was like chichilds, platies, and some other hardy fish. I asked him if albino cories would work he said they're ok but they're kinda touchy (meaning occasionally sensitive) and he reccamend me being a beginner to go by one of his suggestions. I also went to my lfs and they said the same thing. I've been doing research online and hear the same thing. I'm going to use natural cycling method so which fish should I use? My tank 28 gallon glass aquarium with a 150 watt stealth pro heater, coralife LCD digital themometer, 4 bog black stones, a marineland penguin 150 bio wheel with 2 filter cartridge slots, and 17 watt florescent lighting. My stocking plan I 12 albino Cory catfish, 1 female betta, and whatever fish you guys and petco guy says to cycle the tank with. I also plan to use marimo balls and driftwood. Also some natural looking caves and either live or articficial plants because I want live but my substrate isn't deep and my lfs told me sand isn't good for roots. I want a extremely peaceful fish for sure and preferably one that doesn't look like a betta, people have told me betta tend to flare at any fish that looks like their own species. Perhaps something unique like a unusual looking fish(s). Thanks sorry for my extremely long question I'm just concerned and I want my tank to be done right because my parents invested a extreme amount of money into it and have high hopes!

 

[mommytron]

i'd really like to know what his argument was and see all the research you did that said "natural" cycling was the best way.

fishless cycling is easier, does not harm any fish, and less expensive as you will not have to replace the fish that will probably die during the cycle.

 

[Aquarium1]

+1. The petco manager mainly just in it for the money, but then again, he may actually believe that. However, fishless cycle doesn't harm the fish, plus its faster and as rt said cheaper and easier. You won't have to do pwcs every time the ammonia gets up to .25ppm, with fishless.

 

[DragonFish71]

I think that Petco manager needs a good hard kick!

Even if you don't use "pa" try using Seachem Stability or Nutrafin Cycle with a raw shrimp in a piece of clean panty hose. Follow the directions on the bottle, DO NOT USE LIVE FISH (ahem) add your raw shrimp, test the water constantly (using a liquid kit,API is recommended, don't use strips) , remove shrimp when it gets nasty and replace with another raw shrimp, repeat until water test results come back at the right parameters.

 

[ilovemydragongoby]

+1 and +1 i agree with both aquarium1 and mommytron
i learned the hard way with cycling with fish, and i learned my lesson too. 1. its safer for the fish 2. it wont cost as much in the long run. 2. there is a lot more maintenance that is needed to be done when cycling with fish

don't listen to the lfs, they just want you to spend more money

 

[ilovemydragongoby]

+1 dragonfish

 

[mfdrookie516]

wow... first, you were talking to one of the many ignorant chain store employees who 'heard' this or that and preach it like its written in stone and the only way to do it. second, why on earth would you even believe him? Honestly, with all of the people here who have years worth of research, experience, and love for the hobby in their 'resume' who are so passionate about fishless cycling, how could anybody who has seen this possibly believe that?

IMHO, cycling with fish after being told how harmful it is to the fish is animal cruelty. If you didn't know better, or were convinced by some uneducated store employee (much like the one you're speaking of) it would be a completely different story.
/

 

[MarkA123]

Thanks for convincing me against natural cycling. Although I am still strongly against bio-starters and unnecessary chemicals like that I think I'll do fishless cycling. And I'm not a fish abuser I care about them they're not like a decoration to me like many of you may think from this post. One of the main reasons I got a new aquarium is when I betta I kept it in a 1 gallon bowl after the petco employee suggested i get it. Once my lfs told me they're not happy in a 1 gallon bowl I felt guilty not getting it a better tank. I really wanted a hamster but when i was going to get one the guilt kicked in and I had to get a better home for the betta! Life story over kinda stupid but proves i don't Hate fish lol!

 

[ilovemydragongoby]

i'm glad you decided against cycling with fish. sure you're going to wait a little longer to put fish in the tank. but it will be worth the wait, and a lot safer for your fish. good luck!

 

[mommytron]

i'd still like to know what his and everyone else you talked to's argument was for not fishless cycling. i mean... he must have been making stuff up because there is NO real reason that cycling with fish is better than without.

 

[MarkA123]

Thanks his argument was a bunch of bogus I understand now it was really long. I spoke to the assistant fish worker and he was in training. I going to go back there and talk to the actually fish manager not the trainee. But could some of you say what I Should look for in the ingredients.

i'd still like to know what his and everyone else you talked to's argument was for not fishless cycling. i mean... he must have been making stuff up because there is NO real reason that cycling with fish is better than without.

 

[Crepe]

For ammonia? Uhh you're looking for 90% distilled water and 10% Ammonium Hydroxide. No surfactants or fragrances or colorings. I don't see how ammonia is such a terrible chemical. It's a cleaner, it's in our own urine, and it is at the molecular level the same as fish waste...

 

[MarkA123]

I didn't say it was a terrible chemical thanks for the percentages. Ill try ace most people say that's where they've found it!

For ammonia? Uhh you're looking for 90% distilled water and 10% Ammonium Hydroxide. No surfactants or fragrances or colorings. I don't see how ammonia is such a terrible chemical. It's a cleaner, it's in our own urine, and it is at the molecular level the same as fish waste...

 

[taylorodw]

Yes, Ace is a good idea.

My LFS tried to talk me out of cycling as well. I wasn't going to try to convince the guy (he had owned this store since the 90s) but there was no way I was going to cycle with fish

He said: Pure ammonia from a bottle isn't added to a tank constantly, so there's no genuine consistent ammonia source
Bio-spira like products can take care of the fish
Some fish are "bullet proof"

I fishless cycled with no problems and I am sure the fish I have now appreciate it

 

[mommytron]

I fishless cycled with no problems and I am sure the fish I have now appreciate it

ditto. it was amazingly simple too

 

[severum mama]

Thanks his argument was a bunch of bogus I understand now it was really long. I spoke to the assistant fish worker and he was in training. I going to go back there and talk to the actually fish manager not the trainee. But could some of you say what I Should look for in the ingredients.

Sadly, the manager probably doesn't know much either. Chain pet stores most often put more focus on hiring people that will work for beans than hiring knowledgeable individuals or training those that aren't (speaking from experience here).

If you don't want to dose ammonia, you can use a piece of a raw shrimp tied up in a filter bag or pantyhose. That's sort of a set it and forget it method... no dosing involved. Either way works just fine though.

 

[MarkA123]

Ok thanks for all your advice I'm going to ace today hopefully I'll find some so I cam start the cycle! How much do I need? And how much is it I only have 12 dollars. And also are these the ingredients I'm looking for, ammonia and water?

 

[mommytron]

make sure the bottle says "pure ammonia" or "clear ammonia" or "janitorial strength" ammonia. you do not want any scents, surfactants, dyes, etc. just ammonia, which may be diluted with water. shake the bottle to make sure no bubbles form. it shouldn't be any more than 5 dollars or so.

 

[taylorodw]

My Ace had two sizes - I went with the smaller one and used maybe 1/3 of the bottle to cycle my 30gal and start the cycle in my QT.

You can ask for "Janitorial Ammonia" and they'll know what you're talking about.

 

[MarkA123]

My ace has two sizes two ones a gallon and one like 36 oz.