Cycling a Quarantine tank?

[Jferrante]

I know this is a lot of information and it seems people here tend not to like to read much lol. but I put it fairly straight forward but I am also kind of hoping for an expert opinion on the matter since this topic kind of leans toward a more advanced way of introducing new fish.



Now my quarantine tank is only 5.5 gallons but the fish I plan to add in the future will be only around 1-2" when bought and probably no more than 3-4" after fully grown but by that time I may have more tanks and equipment to use.

On my 5.5 gallon quarantine tank I have an Aquaclear 20 filter and cobalt heater and I put in one fake plant. I've had it running for no particular reason other than make sure the equipment works good.

To set it up a few days before I would get a fish I figure I would replace the water in it with water from the tank which will be easy since I can disconnect my canister filter and drain water into it through its hoses since it's right next to it. I would then do a quick clean of filter floss as a regular maintance in my canister and drain the water and remove the mini media bag I have in my canister and add it to the quarantine tank. Then reconnect the canister and run it as normal
Now this at this point is where I am a bit unsure.

-How long would it take to get the water to closely resemble the main tank?
If the time is too long there will be no new ammonia levels for the bacteria on in the media bag to feed on.. i figure no more than 24hrs since it's the same tank water and filter media.

-Should I keep the water warmer than the normal tank? (say 84 degrees F) so when I add the fish it will help kill off ich or any other parasites as well as help the BB to establish quicker or should I wait till after the new fish is in it then slowly increase and slowly lower it back down? would this be a smart thing to do?

-How long do you recommend keeping the fish in the quarantine tank?

Now another thing is with every new fish I plan to do a drip acclimation in a Tupperware container to assure low levels of stress since it is easy to do and probably worth the effort. Plus it's some down time with the new fish
I figure you pick a container that's clean and about half the size of the volume of water in the bag and I can ask for extra water to make this easier. I also have extra fish bowls which I can use instead of Tupperware. Then I drip till it's about full and remove half then refill, then use a fish net to add to the Q-tank adn toss the water. I only ask because I have never done this before. I figure the water dripped in should be from the Q-tank too...

Then do I do a small water change? or simply have the Q-tank 75% full and fill in the rest just so it gets a taste of some fresher waters. to further reduce stress?

It wasn't that expensive to set up this Q-tank and drip system and I'm glad I got the best parts for it. I just want to know more on a sort of professional way to go about it. Which is probably more than a lot of people do but I don't want dead fish and I want them to be extra happy that I was the one that took them in.

 

[NigelK8485]

That's a lot of information. Why would you fill the QT tank with old tank water? Just start it with fresh water. The heat method of treating ich is still stressful on fish, just not as stressful as medications. Once the fish is in there observe it and then treat accordingly if you believe the fish has ich. If you're using biomedia from an established tank the beneficial bacteria will already be there, no need to heat the water for the bacteria to establish.

As for how long to keep the fish in QT, at least a week. If you notice anything off about the fish then you keep it in as long as you need to treat it.

For the drip method, yes. I start by floating the bag in the tank for 30 minutes to get temperatures close. You'll want to use the water the fish is in then drip water from your tank at the rate of 3-4 drops per second. Once the volume of water doubles, pour out half and repeat. I usually do it one more time after that just for good measure. Then, net the fish and put him in the tank, don't add any of the water used in the drip acclimation. Fishbowl, Tupperware, it doesn't really matter. Just keep lights low and movement around the fish to a minimum. When it's time to add the fish to the main tank you could just put him in a bowl and then slowly add a cup of water, wait ten minutes, add another cup, wait, etc. to acclimate him to the main tank. Even if you were to use old tank water the pH everything would be different depending on what decorations or other factors could influence it so you'd need to acclimate him again anyways. Just fill the qt tank up with new water and let it sit with the filter running the day before getting the fish.


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[Jferrante]

Thank you thats a lot of good information that I was looking for

I might get some new cory cats to add but since the last batch only 2 of the 5 survived I wanted to take extra precaution. There is 2 of the remaining peppered cories in the main tank now that are doing very well, the other 3 were different and darker and never schooled with these 2 so I think they were a different shipment or possibly a different breed that weren't hardy.
I was thinking a school of sterbai cories. I know they recommend adding big schools but these two are best buds and are highly active despite the events that occurred I think they might actually get along with different breed even if it's just the two of them. perhaps I'd get 3 more peppered but I'd plan on getting them from a different location since I cleaned them out when I bought the "peppered" cories.
eventually I'll get rams and possibly peaceful dwarf gouramis and what not but I want to add fish that are less difficult first to boost the filter and what not. If the neon blue gourami is easier I could get one of those since I've spotted two in a local tank. I could just add a couple of plants that float to accommodate their habitat I already have a banana plant that reached the surface but it's lilies are just forming now.

Sorry for the length but I can't put it accurately with less information.

 

[Jferrante]

Proper Fish Quarantine

Slow Acclimation vs Quick-Release Fish Acclimation

I found these two links. The guy makes a lot of sense but also does things that seem a bit more difficult or are frustrating to do for most of us.

Like my tank is right next to my quarantine tank and I can move my Qt but it's lower than my main tank by quite a bit so in worst case senerio my main tank would "contaminate" my Qt but that's kind of irrelevant since the fish would eventually be added to that tank. I can leave it on the lower shelf where it is now which would make in unlikely to have contamination but it'd be difficult to work with given how close the top shelf is to the top of the tank.. I'd only have around 6 inches of space But I will try it that anyways the first time around along with drip acclimation between both.

For a seller I respect the guy and his knowledge but for an owner his procedures are just way too much and even cruel when it comes to potentially sacrificing a fish to test the new additions conditions... I'd suspect that would only be really necessary for wild fish really even then it's still kind of cruel..

But he did make a remark about treating QT fish with antibiotic flakes before introducing them simply to reduce and chance of infection.. This is interesting. although I probably won't do it at first unless my LFS has this stuff it seems like an interesting way to treat the fish. I don't really have a firm understanding of disease yet with fish so what would work with what still is a curiosity of mine. I mean there is only a handful of treatment options so it won't take long. but that is a different and more complex subject I have yet to explore further.

 

[Jferrante]

Proper Fish Quarantine

Slow Acclimation vs Quick-Release Fish Acclimation

I found these two links. The guy makes a lot of sense but also does things that seem a bit more difficult or are frustrating to do for most of us.

Like my tank is right next to my quarantine tank and I can move my Qt but it's lower than my main tank by quite a bit so in worst case senerio my main tank would "contaminate" my Qt but that's kind of irrelevant since the fish would eventually be added to that tank. I can leave it on the lower shelf where it is now which would make in unlikely to have contamination but it'd be difficult to work with given how close the top shelf is to the top of the tank.. I'd only have around 6 inches of space But I will try it that anyways the first time around along with drip acclimation between both.

For a seller I respect the guy and his knowledge but for an owner his procedures are just way too much and even cruel when it comes to potentially sacrificing a fish to test the new additions conditions... I'd suspect that would only be really necessary for wild fish really even then it's still kind of cruel..

But he did make a remark about treating QT fish with antibiotic flakes before introducing them simply to reduce and chance of infection.. This is interesting. although I have to look more into these antibiotics before I'd make the plunge. either way he only charges like a dollar an once which is nice. I'll ask around to see if anyone likes it.

 

[treemanone2003]

FWIW, I practice my QT methods EXACTLY in the same manner as the first article with one exception. That being length of time. I go right past 40 days and my period is 60 days. 6 weeks alone in QT and 2 weeks with my "control" fish. I don't feel 1 week is long enough as many cases (found in this forum) happen to be "I got these 2 weeks ago......now they have white spots, swim funny, breathing hard, etc. Not everything in this hobby manifests itself in 1 week and when going from the LFS (or wherever they come from) chances are you have very little knowledge of what their parameters are. Also, it's only the truly experienced that will ever scrutinize a fish (and the others in the same tank) for at least 30 minutes before deciding to take it. Simply because they just don't make it available to the consumer unless you're proactive and request it.

I also agree with the "sacrifice" fish. I can understand how you think it may be "cruel" but I feel differently. Using the least favorite of your group, as a "control" in the test. I have one that (yes I still love it) didn't turn out exactly as I had hoped for. If I lost it I would certainly be upset but it would definitely trigger my thought process as to what the hell just happened. As well, my QT is in a separate room along with an entirely separate set of tools. Even the Python.

I touched briefly above about knowing parameters and I'll explain more here. I currently have one tank of Discus in which all but one came from the same source. (I am planning another and they will come from a different supplier yet undergo a similar process.) When I place orders with him, we discuss both our parameters in detail. In my first order he went as far as sending photos of his liquid test results to assure me that we were extremely close. Of course he could have made that up but he's 3 time zones away and called me on my local time. (I swear the guy never sleeps.) His reputation and effort is what I finally went on. He asks for a phone call when they arrive and we literally test water while on the phone. If you use liquid kits you're aware this is about a ten minute process. After the first time, that's all I needed and it no longer happens. Our parameters are so close that the only thing I do is float in the bag for temp match. Once that's achieved, I simply reach in the bag with bare hands, remove the fish and plop right in the tank. Easy peasy !! ALL orders have been 150% every time !!!

When it comes to leaving the QT and going into the DT, I simply drain enough water to make it easier for me to put hands on the fish. By this point (8 weeks) they're very used to me and we've interacted so much, they have no fear. I simply reach in (again with hands and no net) remove them and walk into the next room. Drop the fish in the tank and done. Usually it's repeated as I buy in pairs or trios. The parameters are identical in each tank due to constant regular husbandry, no acclimation is necessary.

When it comes to needing a QT, I set it up with a spare tank of 20 or 30g. Depends on how many fish I order. I always have additional sponge filters running in my DT just for that purpose. Fill and treat tank with new water, add sponge, and presto done !! Never a problem in 3 years of doing it this way.

I think I touched on everything but if I missed something or any questions, I'll come back to it shortly. The dogs have their legs crossed and are looking at me funny.


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[mrvincent]

I got a good tricks to cycle a new tank. Put your Aquaclear 20 filter on your main, and run both filters. Wait for 1 month.

After this, fill your new tank with fresh new water, with dechlorinator, put the cycled Aquaclear 20 back on it, the tank is now cycled.

It won't stay cycled for long time if you don't add fishs to it.



======================================
I also know a very good trick for instant cycle !!!

I don't read all the whole thing, but I did CTRL+F and saw you got a canister on the main.

Take some canister old bio media, put it in your Aquaclear 20 instead using the new bios ceramics they give. Then you get instant cycle.

 

[Jferrante]

well this is where for me this becomes complicated. I have 12 fish in the tank now, 10 rummies nose tetras, 2 peppered Cories. and snails that managed to find there way in.
None of which are quarantined.

So the chance that trace amounts of dormant ich or bad bacteria are in the tank are unknown ( but probably likely unless the fish store I got the stuff did extensive QT on all new arrivals which they don't, except probably one which might do this.)
The only way I could think to undo this is to start over and that'd be a pain in the butt since I just finished cycling it about a week ago.

I get the control fish situation since it introduces these pests that are on or in both the new and old fish without adding whatever is on the new fish to the main tank. But how can I do that with only schooling fish and snails for such a long period? Just pluck a rummy from the pack and use it as a control? Idk I'm still pondering if I should bother trying that despite seeing the potential benefit... But It's definitely a good idea with very sensitive or really expensive fish but I try to avoid those for the most part.

A lot of people online that do QTs use tank water from the main tank in the QT and if I used media from the main tank to cycle the qt it would undoubtedly be the same idea. So either one or even both probably works fine for that form of a QT.

I think this simplified version is to have quick response in case if stress of the new home and to see if the new water conditions bring out problems in the new fish without moving them from main tank to QT in hurry and adding more stress... but not so much on the new fish accidentally killing fish in the main tank by introducing something... that would require the control fish it seems...

Perhaps some generalized antibiotics that don't hurt the cycle in the QT could have a similar effect.
I'm pretty conflicted now on how to go about this.
Would it be worth using rummy nose since there is so many and since they aren't expensive to do what you are suggesting...? probably just being away from the school would stress them out enough to start something they may already even have in them..

 

[mrvincent]

Then I would wait to see what happens on the main, or maybe add more fishs right now while your main is a kind of QT tank... Threat all in same time if you see some problems, way more simple.

Ick is common disease, I would wait a week or two to see if you develop any diseases. If things seems ok, I would use the main canister bio media to seed the QT filter.

Common diseases like ick are easy to threat (cure).

Aquariums take times to develops.


I'm from the people who is doing QT. I don't use old main tank water, I only use the water from the same tap, wich is the same KH and GH than the main, also the same amount of TDS. Never saw a problem with acclimatation. Sure if you throw your fish from one tank to another, you may see problems (PH changes, temp changes...)

Also the word QT means quarantine, wich mean 40 days. I can confirm 20 days is enough, so if your fishs are well quarantined and you declare them uninfected, they supposed to be happy, so a little more stress won't be a problem. Never saw a fish die due to transportation from the QT to the main, but already saw fishs health decrease in the QT then die. This is normal part of the hobby, sometime you get bad fishs...


If I was you, I would keep the QT empty, (no water), keep it full if it's already full, don't add fish to that tank, wait to see if you get any problems on the main, and if one fish or more get ick or sick, threat the entire tank. Even if it's fungus, or any other disease, threating the whole tank is the best.

After you sure your main is clean and fishs are happy, you can start look for fishs at LFS, acclimate them to the QT, and see the filter with the main at the same time. With low bioload you shouldn't see any mini-cycle problems (talking by experience).

 

[Jferrante]

What kind of medications would your recommend to have on hand?
If any would kill of media I just remove the media and run the filter with just floss and sponges in the canister till it clears up? or would that defeat the purpose since they are probably on the filter media...
Ich I understand is simple since all you have to really do is slowly raise the temperature over the course of a few weeks to around 86 degrees and wait a little bit then go back down.. I haven't tried that kind of thing yet so idk how it affects plants or snails anything, well I know the plants will be fine actually since I know plants.

I have Furan 2 left. But it would be a shame to have to dose 55 gallons with it and use it all up.. but if need be. Any others? which are filter friendly? Which show best results for what conditions?

 

[treemanone2003]

Methylene blue, malachite green, kanamycin, metronidazole, Praziquental. But those would be for treating specific problems. QT is just an observation chamber and as you mentioned some will inhibit the bb so precautions should be utilized at that point. Also as you mentioned dosing in a 55g is difficult to justify.


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[mrvincent]

Lol don't dose Furan-2 for ick.

Anyway, since you have your fish, none are sicks ?

 

[NigelK8485]

I keep methylene blue, prazipro, and a thing of aquarium salt on deck. I also have packets of API General cure, though I've only used them once with poor results so they don't get looked at very often.


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[Jferrante]

haha well obviously, I was just saying I had it on hand. Ich is a parasite... Furan 2 is for bacteria.. For what kind of bacteria I do not know since most seem to be labeled for general infections since it's hard to tell many times. But one of my LFS once recommended it for a nasty case of cotton fungus a few years ago when it was a goldfish/koi tank. But I cleaned everything thoroughly before restarting the tank so there should be no worries on that.

 

[Jferrante]

I've had 11 rummy nose tetras in the tank and 5 Peppered Cories (3 of which where visibly different in appearance and more colorful than the bigger two)

One rummy nose I think got accidentally crushed when moving around this big fake wood decoration since I found him the next day under one of it's legs. My gravel is Quartz so the colors are very close to the rummies but it could of been something else too I suppose.

The 3 Peppered Cories that were more colorful died within a week in the tank. First one acted like he had bloat or something and eventually sank in the emergency set up of the QT tank. Second floated and started breathing heavy till he passed away, third was slowly acting weird but ultimately was still eating and what not. I figure the 3 that didn't make it were just a weak breed probably recently shipped to the store while the 2 two kicking around are a better breed possibly a little older. The store owner was trying to sway my choice away from them to much older almost fully grown ones from a different species. (but only by saying like oh those guys are wicked cool and kinda being like yeah those are good too with a straight face.) so perhaps he knew some were from a new shipment or maybe he just wanted to sell the old ones.

All the rest of the fish appear to be happy and healthy at the moment. At one time I thought the rummies had something since they had a spot on the cheek but turns out they often have a spot there and because their face is red it can look like something haha