Death Tank

[dogartist]

I have a 20gal F/W set up over a month now.. 7 zebra danios , 4 painted tetras and 3 guppies(1f/2m) all doing great.. I added a male Betta and a female..They were doing great for about 5 days. I noticed the male Betta was hiding for about 2 days I would make him come out to eat and he would go right back into hiding.. My female liked the rocks but would often come out..Last night I was feeding them and a female guppy floated by with NO FINS anywhere 8O A male guppy had a big bite out of his tail and the Betta had most of his fins shredded .Today the male Betta died and the male guppy had more bitten out of his fins and also died.. I noticed the zebra danios where ganging up and chasing the Betta and the guppy (before they died) trying to bite at them and basically tormenting them,,(I was thinking because they where showing signs of distress) so I took them out put them in a tank I had water setting up for the big tank and within 5 mins all where DEAD ..I took the female Betta out put her in a tiny tank and she's fine..Was she the one doing in the fins? or was it the zebra's? The fish that are left are doing great..(one male guppy and 4 painted tetra's out all those fish..
What happened. .It's so sad. I take such care in adding the fish and making sure they have the best food, a good place to hide it they need and I end up killing most of them..and the other died from injuries..My tank is become a death watch.. I want to put the female Betta back in the tank.. But I'm afraid she was the one but all I read she won't be inclined to do that....Please help.

 

[Allivymar]

Hiya dogartist and welcome to Aquariumadvice.

I'm sorry about your fish; lets see if we can figure out whats going on.

Have you tested your water? What's your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels (if you don't have a handle on the nitrogen cycle yet, take a peek here: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html ). I have a feeling your tank is cycling, and levels of nitrogenous waste are the cause of the deaths. The attacks may have contributed to the levels of stress, but lets start with the levels first. I'd leave the female out of the tank for the moment until thats determined.

Also, the water you had setting out; was it treated? What sort of tank/container was it in? Where did the water come from?

I have a feeling the deaths have 2 different causes.

 

[dogartist]

Thanks Allivymar

I have had my water tested several times and it's almost "perfect" ..I have done the % of water change and tested the water after...I think your right about the cylcling..Even though I have had tanks before ..they are all so different right...Thanks for the heads up on the info. I will learn all I can about the cycling
The water I have set up for the % change and the same I put the poor doomed danios in..is in a clean 1gal. glass container..I have city water so I leave it out at least 2 days or more..I try to be so careful...There is nothing added to it like conditoners..I have been afraid to use anything,,ha..for fear I will do my fish in..well I see that didn't work out to well :? Thanks again for the help..

 

[Fruitbat]

dogartist...

Leaving your water our for 2 days probably won't allow all of the 'chlorine' to dissipate. Back in the 'old days' when water treatment facilities actually used chlorine to treat water...you could let it sit for a day or two and all the chlorine would be gone. Many water treatment facilities nowadays use chloramines (a chlorine-containing compound) which will not dissipate like the old gaseous stuff did. Using the commercially available dechlorinators is often essential for removing the chloramines. Alternately...you could boil your water beforehand or run it through a filter containing activated carbon for a day or so.

Your danios may not be as doomed as you think...they're pretty tolerant of less than ideal water quality. Being in a 1 gallon container will cramp their style pretty badly though....they are active fish and like to be able to move around.

 

[Megalofyia]

It's not a good idea to keep guppies and bettas together. I would not suggest you put the betta back in that tank if you are going to keep guppies, or any long fined fish.

 

[dogartist]

It's not a good idea to keep guppies and bettas together.

Thanks for the heads up..She can go live with my friend she would love to have her...Yall have been so much help already..I'm having to relearn everything..

 

[Kwenbee]

I know how you feel...people at work were calling our fish tank an Execution Tank for awhile.

You said the tank was only up for a month but the water was almost perfect with all those fish? I'm totally jealous...we have a 10 gallon that I've been fighting with for almost TWO months and I STILL have ammonia and nitrite levels that just won't go away.

You say you've had your water tested....have you tested it yourself or taken it to a store? I ask because I took ours to a store the first few times, and they told me our ammonia and nitrite levels were "fine", but claimed our pH was too high. I broke down and bought a good test kit (Dr. Wellfish) and when I tested, my ammonia level was 3.0! Now how can the lfs tell me the ammonia is "fine" with a level like that???

I have read that tetras tend to be fin nippers as well, which is why we want to get a 55 gal tank for the angel fish I'm dying to have. We have neon tetras...could it be they were the culprits? I know I've been told to not put our beta in with the neons because the neons think their fins are "bait".

You might want to buy a good test kit and check your water levels. Sounds like the poor guys you moved to the other tank may have already been affected by something and the new water had nothing to do with it.

 

[dogartist]

Kwenbee
In a sick kinda a way I'm glad it's not just me..
I took the test to a pet store that is a distance from where I live...(in the boonies) :| All the test have been "fine" except this last one and the p.h was high .. I would tend to think the ammonia would or should be higher..
I ordered a test kit all in one thing that Alli gave a site to..
The poor guppy is holding on but his tail is all but desinagrated and he's at the top swimming. I have put stress coat in today...all I could find at the pet store..for crying out loud..Such a hick place I live in when it comes to things like that..
One good thing no more or very little ICK salt type spots today..and the fruit tetras are looking better......That all that left other then the one sick guppy.. I'm using the high temp method for the Ick..

I do see the tetra are sorta chasing the guppy now that it's sick..I will put him in a place alone..less stress anyway for the little thing...
Good luck with your tank.. Everyone has been so helpful.

 

[Allivymar]

Puppypainter:

I think many of us have had "death tanks" at some point. I've had my first angelfish for 2 yrs now, am running a 55g with breeding angels and a well planted 10g as well, and got cocky about how I'm managed to keep them healthy. Last month I purchased 5 rams to start a new tank. I have one survivor, and he's got a 25g all to himself cause I'm afraid to add anyone to the tank, and since its another planted tank with laterite substrate its near impossible to sterilise!

If you can get a hold of some broad spectrum antibiotics ASAP, you might be able to save the guppy (oxytetracycline, tetracycline or Kanacyn would be good choices). And oral antibiotics would be best, but I find them hard to locate, even in the stores here in NY. I have a feeling online stores are going to be your saving grace for good fish supplies; sounds like your area is pretty bare for decent fish care!

 

[tkos]

Perhaps the test kits those stores are using are just old and out of date and they are too lazy to replace them.

Yeah, I second getting some good chlorine/chloramine remover. I use the Wardley brand stuff and it has been great.

Rememebr to always treat for ich at least 3 weeks after you see no more vivisble signs of infection as there are three stages and you want to make sure to get them all.

 

[Kwenbee]

Sounds exactly like what happened to me. The first test we took showed "fine" ammonia and nitrite levels, but the pH was high. She told me to come back in a week. We took a sample back in a week, and they told me "all levels are fine". At that time, I bought a better test kit -- an all in one that tests ammonia, nitrite, hardness and pH, and tested the water myself. I was shocked to learn the "fine" level of ammonia was 3.0! What moron who works with fish would tell someone who has no clue what they are doing (and I told them I'd executed a large portion of the goldfish and guppy population at that point) that 3.0 is "fine".

Now, she did correctly diagnose fin rot and gave me antibiotics. I would definitely take the time to ride up to the store and purchase some of that and get it in ASAP. Cleared up our rot problem ASAP, but turned the water a nasty shade of brown.

Oops...I treated our beta's ick for a few days after the last spot disappeared, then stopped treating...he seems fine, but should I resume treatment for two more weeks? We treated for a week. I did notice the other day that one of our tetras had some white spots on the top of his back fin, but have seen no signs of it anywhere else on him or on any of the other fish, so I wonder if he just naturally has spotting there...should I treat the big tank as a precaution?

Just so you know...my ammonia levels have finally started to drop and my nitrites are rising, so I think I'm finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel! Water is still rather cloudy, though.