Dwarf gourami bottom dweller, but reg. top dweller?

[7Enigma]

Hey everyone I changed the title of the topic because I'm a bit confused. I was at PetSmart today and they had dwarf gourami's labeled as bottom dwellers, but normal gourami's as top dwellers? Is this true? I am looking to get a top dwelling fish to complement my mid/bottom dwellers and don't want to get the dwarf if indeed it spends most of its time near the substrate. Thanks!










Hey everyone,

It's been quite a while since I thought of adding a new fish but the bug has gotten to me again, and there's a couple reasons why.

1. I have a moderate/heavily planted tank with CO2 injection so I'm soaking up the nitrAtes pretty well (so bioload is not really an issue)

2. I do 50% PWC's each week due to the plants and ferts dosed

3. None, I mean NONE of my current fish spend ANY time in the upper 2/3rd's of the tank. I have 6 tiger barbs, 3 other assorted barbs, 2 Oto's, 1 BN pleco, and 1 cory (all now adults as they have been in the tank since Feb06, BN pleco was purchased a couple months ago but was fully grown when purchased). And none of them (other than the Oto's) are ever in 2/3rd's of the tank unless its feeding time. It's like they hate it or something? There is somewhat of a current up there from the HOB filter, and my tank does have a 65w CF light on it (20gallon high), but comon, I rarely see them in the tank!


I'm thinking something like a dwarf gourami or some other fish that can handle its own against the tiger barbs (which are pretty aggressive), and that would spend most of its time in the upper part of the tank, that would be okay solo (ie no shoaling fish), and that obviously wouldn't get too big for my tank.

I know normally my tank would be considered fully stocked but taking into account the plant level and 50% PWC each week, I don't think its a problem.

Thanks in advance!

[hc8719]

this is your 20 gallon tank? even if the upper 2/3rds are empty, with the other fish, it migh be pushing the bio-load. and i'd think the barbs would harass anyone they saw free swimming near the top

[MyCatsDrool]

I am suprised that the barbs aren't all over the place...my experiences with them, they were everywhere in the tank.

upper 2/3rds with barbs and no schoaling/schooling will be a tough find....maybe a female betta would be ok. Male has too long of fins. Other than that, I don't know.

I'd personally look into a larger tank, because the ottos and corys should be in much larger schools (4-5 each), and it would give you room for a tough dither fish like giant danios.

[7Enigma]

I originally had 3 cory's. 2 were essentially killed by the barbs. I also had several more oto's that either didn't make it through the acclimation period, or on 2 cases were also killed by the barbs (gaping wounds in the gills before they died).

No idea whether the barbs would cause problems with surface swimming fish. All the problems I've experienced so far have been due to territory battles at the bottom of the tank.

[lovemybarbs]

I'm always shocked to hear that barbs do any of this stuff. I guess I add the right type of fish. Black ruby barbs are pretty if you can find them.

[7Enigma]

Originally Posted by lovemybarbs

I'm always shocked to hear that barbs do any of this stuff. I guess I add the right type of fish. Black ruby barbs are pretty if you can find them.

Barbs like any species group have their different temperaments (as I'm sure you know). My gold checkered cherry barbs (some weird crossbreed) are extremely docile. Tiger barbs are on the complete other end of the spectrum IMO and are very testy and easily riled up. To be fair most of my losses with at least the cory's were at the beginning of my setup, and the tank was virtually bare (2 pots, and that's pretty much it), so there definitely wasn't the hiding spots there are now.

I'd like to stay away from barbs since I now have 2 species of them and both stay at the bottom of the tank. I'm looking for a top dweller (such as a dwarf gourami based on what I've read about them), that won't get very large, but will be large enough to hopefully keep the tigers at bay, and stay out of their territory.

I have great ground cover, so if the gourami was to spend its time higher up, very few spots would even have a line of sight view of the gourami. I also have now a good patch of riccia in my QT tank that could be placed floating in the main tank once I get pressurized setup (it didn't like my main tank probably due to the Excel I was dosing and possible CO2 starvation). I'll also allow my stargrass and Rotala to stay much closer to the surface than I do now (right now I pretty much let it overgrow, then do a serious cutback). All of that should allow for a good ground an upper tank cover that should help keep any type of aggression to a minimum.

And I see the comments about bioload. I mentioned in my first post that this tank is uncommon compared to most. If you are not familiar with a high light, CO2 injected, heavily planted FW tank, it might seem like too many fish. But all of those factors allow the plants to absorb a large amount of ammonia/nitrAte, and the 50% PWC each week further reduces any buildup of nitrAtes. Once I get my pressurized setup up and running, I'm confident that will further increase my nitrAte consumption.

I'm more concerned about the compatibility of my tankmates. Thanks for all the advice so far. Please keep it coming!

EDIT: Here's a tank pic for reference of what I consider a moderately to heavily planted tank. This was right AFTER a major pruning. Normally it is much more dense:



EDIT #2: The other thing I've been reading (since I'm really pretty set on a dwarf gourami unless someone has firsthand knowledge that they will get torn to pieces with the barbs) is that they are very prone to internal parasites and should have a 3 week quarantine with medicated food for parasites. That gives me quite a long time if I decide to go with a gourami before it will be introduced into the main tank. I would use my 10gallon QT tank that is currently a snail farm (with clippings from my main tank) for quarantine.

[Musket]

Your tank looks nice. Sorry I have no experience with barbs. However I have a dwarf gourami in my 48g bow with 2 fire mouth meeki. THey tend to bother the larger angel instead of him. I had 2, but one died due to a tumor she had. I'm considering getting one or two more since he seems so lonely now she has passed on. Keeping some good floating or tall stalks to give coverage is a good idea. My dwarf is over a year old and still only 1" long. I've seen other dwarfs get larger, so do a little research as to the final size you'd like. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[MyCatsDrool]

FWIW, I did try a close cousin of the D.Gourami with tiger barbs, a paradise fish, and it got nipped to death. They are not fast swimmers, and won't be able to get away from the speed of the barbs...if the barbs are nippers.

You want something tough and fast with short fins that is top dwelling, and non schooling. There aren't a lot of options in that realm. The only fish I can think of is a female betta, and they are not fast. They are however, tough, short finned, solitary and top dwelling. 4 out of 5 ain't bad.

Another I might consider is a molly, platy or swordtail. Get a shortfinned one that is not a ballon type. Another top dweller that can be found shortfinned, relatively fast and tough, can be solitary, and top dwelling. Also, their bright color might throw the barbs off. I have had success with mollies and barbs.

[7Enigma]

My lilypad-like moneywort is now much longer (closer to the surface) and larger than the picture. The christmas moss has also about tripled in size from that picture as well. And I am constantly throwing out the stargrass because it grows so fast so I'll have ample cover. Thanks for the post!

EDIT:

MyCatsDrool, I thought mollies were brackish water fish?

[zenkatydid]

mollies live perfectly well in freshwater, but can also live in brackish. 99% of the mollies i've known have lived in freshwater.