Dwarf Puffers and Cardinal tetras???????

[XimeD]

So, I went to the LFS last night and saw that they had a show tank (one of those 6 gal Hagen Fluval Edge tanks that look like a glass "cube" with no additional filtration, except what comes with that kit) with:

-~10 Cardinal Tetras
-3 dwarf puffers
-a lot of red cherry shrimp (more than 15)
-nerite snails
(its overstocked, I know)

I am planning on turning my 20gal into a DP tank (DP, shrimp and otos) but it would be cool if I could add some cardinals. Everything I have read about DP says otos and shrimp (hit or miss with shrimp) are the only tankmates, but I watched this tank for half hour last night and the DPs seemed fine with the cardinals (granted I didn't see it during feeding time) so has anyone succesfully kept these fish together? Any thoughts on this?

If I were to do this I would certainly add the DPs last to the tank.

Thanks for any help

 

[BigJim]

Those Fluval Edge tanks come with either an AC20 or AC30. It's an impressive filter for an all-in-one tank.

No idea on the puffer-cardinal combo. I do have to say I'm surprised any inverts would be recommended for a puffer tank.

 

[XimeD]

I love the look of those tanks but they are kind of small IMO, it'd be cool if they made a 14gal like that (kind of the smaller biocube).

About the inverts, I was surprised about the Nerite snails in there (though they were about 3 times as big as the DPs) but the shrimp I had heard about before, people have mixed success with the shrimp-DP combo. I was VERY surprised about the cardinal-puffer combo, it's gonna be a while before I can get anything for my 20gal so I will keep an eye on the show tank when I go to that LFS, it would be cool if it worked =)

 

[Deep Seven]

Generally dwarf puffers are not very aggressive as juveniles. As they mature they tend to want to stake out a home turf for mating and will protect it. Males exhibit this behavior more than females. A few people have reported success with various attempts at a dwarf puffer community tank, but they are the exception, not the rule.

That being said, 2 female puffers in a 20g, with lots of hiding places/broken lines of sight, might be very happy living with a small school of cardnal tetras. The trick is getting 2 females because they are difficult, but not impossible, to sex as juveniles.

The only person who can really answer your question for sure is the fish. All Gods creatures are unique, including fish, and it depends what prejudices and attitudes the fish brings and what the pressures of her living conditions are that decide how the fish will ultimately react to tankmates.

And the snail... I wouldn't want to wager on that one. If the puffers get real hungry he's on borrowed time. Snails are the natural prey of dwarf puffers. I've seen a few youtube vids of puffers hunting snails, fun to watch, as long as you're not the snail

 

[XimeD]

Thanxs deepseven!

I am not planning on keeping any snails in there. Just mentioned it cause it was part of the set-up I saw and part of what was puzzling me and the puffers I saw were definitely juvies.

Haven't made a decision yet, I would looove to try it cause the cardinals would bring some color to the tank.

 

[libbyb]

I'd love a puffer (never had one) I don't know if I would risk the cardinals, though. That's just me.

 

[HN1]

I totally agree with DS.

They (like a lot of other fish) are VERY different from juvie to adult. I've kept a dozen juvies in a sparsely planted 20 without issues. I've also seen a grown male decimate a school of tetra. The snails are most definitely on borrowed time. The puffers will play until they get a taste and then they do not mess around. They are very cool, personable fish though. Easily the best small "wet pet" and worthy of a tank of their own. JMRR

 

[XimeD]

I totally agree with DS.

They (like a lot of other fish) are VERY different from juvie to adult. I've kept a dozen juvies in a sparsely planted 20 without issues. I've also seen a grown male decimate a school of tetra. The snails are most definitely on borrowed time. The puffers will play until they get a taste and then they do not mess around. They are very cool, personable fish though. Easily the best small "wet pet" and worthy of a tank of their own. JMRR

The plan was to have DP + otos, looks like I'm gonna stick to it. I guess it was wishful thinking that cardinals would work, at least now I know better than to trust that LFS .

Thanks for the advice!

 

[rocioamsterdam]

Hi!!
I just made the mistake of buying a DP for my guppy-corydora aquarium (funny, huh), of course I didn't know anything about puffers. I just liked it a lot, and it was so small I never thought it would be an aggresive fish. The fish-shop lady said he might nip the guppys' fins if he got hungry, but not yet because he (or she) was still quite small. I guess she meant young...

So I ain't giving up this beauty and i have a 7 gal tank cycling just for him. I will try to breed snails in the other 20 gal tank with the friendly fish I keep there.

But hey... why don't you want to put snails in the DPT? I thought that's how you fed them , with small Ramshorns?

Please correct me if I am wrong!!

BTW I am more worried about the puffer getting stressed than about him nipping anything... I have a very playful school of panda corys that make him swirl quite a lot

Any advice for this little guy?? (the DP I mean, I'm a tall girl instead)

 

[Deep Seven]

Hi!

I don't have any first hand experience with dwarf puffers yet, but I've done a lot of reading and tell you what I've learned.

Dwarf puffers can be messy eaters, meaning they will often kill a snail, half eat it, and go kill another. You don't really want to throw a whole bunch of snails in the puffer tank or it might encourage gluttony.

They recommend 15g tank for dwarf puffers. One of the reasons for this is dwarf puffers are intelligent fish and will quickly get bored. They like a complicated aquarium to explore and play in.

They recommend 5g per puffer. This is so each puffer can stake out a territory when they mature.

These are recommendations. They are smart fish and can be taught tricks and such. If you do a good set-up in the 7g, and, IMHO spend some quality time with him, he'll be happy. If you can plan to upgrade him to something a bit bigger, he'll probably be happier.

 

[rocioamsterdam]

Thanks Deep Seven for the info, of course I wouldn't want to keep more than one DP in the 7 gal tank. I have also been reading a lot since last saturday (well... I know I should have googled this guy before buying it but it was so nice looking I couldn't refrain to add it to our fish list). I am not going to feed him a lot of snails because he is I think very small (hence not so aggressive yet), but he hasn't had a chance to get to the bloodworms. I have a pregnant guppy that is constantly bothering him too. That's why I am setting up the 7 gal just for the DP and later make this tank into a breeder tank and get a 15 gal or so for 2 DP (at most).

Ehm, while I can understand most of your posts, I am such a newbie that I dunno what IMHO means...

Any advice is sooo welcome! Thanks!!

 

[Deep Seven]

IMHO is an acronym for In My Humble Opinion

 

[rocioamsterdam]

Ah great! I had read the acronym in a few other posts. Now I know

Now, back to the DPs: I am considering getting already a bigger tank to have 2 of these guys at least. I am also noticing that people usually keep them with otos. Why is it that DPs don't attack otos? I mean, could an oto be replaced by for example a 6 cm corydora? Or is it unrelated to size, but more to lack of interest of DPs towards otos?

And what kind of stuff should I put in the aquarium? I know I need to have plants and other things for them to hide and explore, but are there special rocks or other natural ornaments that would go well?

Last question... about substrate, I got already 1 bag of sand and a bag of what looks like ground black rock (I guess). The thing is, everything is in Dutch (logical in Amsterdam) and I get very confused when I look at aquarium accessories (because I am not Dutch ). I could ask there, but I'm not sure they always give you the best advice (like when they sold me together the DP and guppys, corydoras... knowing that they were meant to be tankmates). So am I risking anything by having a sandy bottom, is my question? Do fish mind, in general (since I have several species it would be good to know?

Well, I hope in a few months I can be the one advising people about fish... just now I have many more questions than answers. Googling does not always get me out of the confusion...

DeepSeven, you have no experience with DPs, but I am sure you do have it with other fish so I don't mean to insist on the DP only. However I will open a new thread if I need info on breeding guppys... the female has all the signs now of being close to little babies.

Thanks!

 

[Deep Seven]

I don't think anyone knows why dwarf puffers from India don't mind an algae eater from the amazon. Perhaps oto cats know how to stay away from the puffers "territory". Perhaps their general behavoir and diet are such the dwarf puffer doesn't feel threatened (otos being vegitarian and puffers being carnivorous). I don't think it's size.

People do claim to have kept puffers safely with other fish, but most people report success with only oto cats, and aprox 50% claim they safely keep amano or ghost shrimp with puffers. One aquarist said he had his puffers with ghost shrimp for over a year, until the puffers figured out how tasty shrimp were.

As for substrate, I've read that puffers have a red clay gravel substrate in their natural enviroment. My LFS sells something that looks good for imitating their natural substrate, and is meant for plants which should help the plants thrive. I'm going to be adding laterite, a natural clay gravel that forms in tropical streams and is good for tropical plants. I don't have enough experience with this set-up to recommend gravel or sand, just telling you what I'm doing.



My experience... I kept fish as a teenager 20 years ago. I work on a salmon farm. My brother has a FW tank and working on setting up a reef tank. I like to read, a lot. I've spent a lot of time reading forums and reading articles and guides. I've learned quite a bit, but my practical experience is limited right now, at least until I get my tanks started.

 

[rocioamsterdam]

Hi,

Well, the main reason I am asking about substrate is because I notice that snails hide into sand very quickly, and of course that makes me think, is the DP gonna be able to dig them out? Hm. I know he won't starve, but still.

I am going to try to acquire practical experience as well - mainly so that I can share experiences with other people in the forum. Now I am only starting. I am also doing a fair deal of reading. The problem is, sometimes info is contradictory.

I am interested in fish that show behavior. Ok, all fish have behavior obviously, but my main entertainment is to watch them do stuff purposedly. I also enjoy looking at my three pretty guppys, but it is a different world compared to the puffer, this one seems to calculate everything very carefully. Which is why I will try to provide him with a species tank as similar as his home as possible... and I'll post about it, I'm sure

Will for sure check out the red clay gravel, I have seen it in the LFS. About laterite, that thing it solidifies right (hm might not be a word... becomes solid I mean)? Is there no need to clean it then, as most people do with gravel?

DeepSeven, what fish are you planning to keep BTW. Just curious...