euthanase/ clove oil

[tropicfishman]

has anyone seen this stuff that doctor foster smith carry's, I believe its called euthanase, its something clove oil, and its to help mother nature along with untreatable fish that are on there last legs, anyone have any experience on this stuff? I have mixed feelings on wether or not its humane to use this stuff.....sure the fish will suffer long if you let it doe on naturally, but how long would this stuff take, does it just stress the fish into a heart attack type state? so many questions

 

[Doog]

From what ive read clove oil and alcohol(vodka, tequilla..that kind) are the more human and quick ways...

 

[coldmachineUK]

You can buy pure clove oil from a supermarket or pharmacy. I bought some from a pharmacy (people use it to help ease toothache and stuff).
It's extremely quick in a high enough dose, yes. I personally believe it's more humane that freezing a fish like I believe some people do. Clove oil puts them to sleep nearly instantly (within a second or two).
You must remember to use a high dose though, otherwise the fish will wake up after a while (e.g. people use clove oil as an anaesthetic to do dental work on their puffer fish so obviously they don't want to put the puffer to sleep permanently!).

 

[7Enigma]

Here's what I would recommend:

-purchase a bottle of clove oil

-check the euthanasia sticky in the sickfish forum

-I would use thouse recommendations for amounts, BUT, the sticky doesn't seem to take into account you need to dissolve the clove oil in alcohol PRIOR to adding to the tank. I'm sure some of it will still dissolve but I've read it works much better to use a solvent first.

-After the fish is asleep for 30min or so (you could probably do it sooner but why risk it), I'd probably freeze the fish. By this point the fish should not suffer at all since its essentially in a comatose state. Unlike paralyzing agents, clove oil is a numbing agent so they will feel no pain.

With smaller fish I still prefer the wacking with a large object approach due to it instantly killing the fish with no suffering (a large piece of flat slate or stone is the best since aiming is a non-issue), but with larger species the clove oil is probably the most humane.

EDIT:

This is the excerpt from the clove oil method:

"Clove Oil can be found relatively cheap in most health food stores, specialty food stores, and pharmacies. Mix it with warm tank water, and shake. Note, that the Oil is not readily dissolved in water, which is why the shaking is very important. The water will eventually turn white when the correct amount of clove oil has been added. Add the fish to this mixture, and it will slowly die from an overdose of this anesthetic oil. More clove oil may need to be added after the fish is in the solution, so my advice is to not skimp on the initial mixture. ¼ teaspoon per gallon of water is the lethal dosage, however more may be used.

After the fish appears dead, it would be best to either freeze the fish or decapitate it, as fish have been known to “wake up” after deep sleep, and supposed death from anesthetics. "

Again I would recommend FIRST dissolving the clove oil in a small amount of alcohol, and THEN following the directions as listed above.

EDIT #2:

This is exactly what I was looking for:

http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/cloveoil.html

 

[hc8719]

why what's going on with some of your fish?

 

[tropicalfish]

The fish may be sick and the disease or whatever is uncurable,... then they will want to kill it off to prevent it from suffering

What about using isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol?

 

[7Enigma]

The fish may be sick and the disease or whatever is uncurable,... then they will want to kill it off to prevent it from suffering

What about using isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol?

Severe burns prior to unconsciousness. Not a humane way to go IMO. If you can't get the prescription drugs from the vet, the clove oil way is the most humane and easiest to overcome (personal feelings-wise smashing them is not quite as peaceful).

 

[tropicfishman]

wow I'm suprised this toppic took off as well as it has lol

 

[hc8719]

i dont know the sickness or the extent, but unless the fish is in obvious pain, give them a chance, some fish are surprising fighters

 

[ikon]

dental work on puffer /???????

You can buy pure clove oil from a supermarket or pharmacy. I bought some from a pharmacy (people use it to help ease toothache and stuff).
It's extremely quick in a high enough dose, yes. I personally believe it's more humane that freezing a fish like I believe some people do. Clove oil puts them to sleep nearly instantly (within a second or two).
You must remember to use a high dose though, otherwise the fish will wake up after a while (e.g. people use clove oil as an anaesthetic to do dental work on their puffer fish so obviously they don't want to put the puffer to sleep permanently!).

how can someone do dental work on a puffer fish ????? thgats a first ...... i didnt know fish had teeth ..

 

[coldmachineUK]

Hehe, it's potentially one of the worst fish-related chores I think there is
Puffer fish have two dental plates; they look like a 'beak' I guess. They use this to crush shells (generally molluscs, but snails also) of creatures which they naturally feed on. If they're not given hard shelled food like this the beak will keep growing and then you have to manually intervene with dental work to file it/cut it down otherwise the puffer won't be able to eat and will starve to death.

The worst for plate overgrowth are DPs, and the South American Puffer (Colomesus asellus).

Heck, here's some photos of the whole affair (not mine, thankfully!):

 

[tropicalfish]

Is that a Dremel I see???

 

[ikon]

i dont know the sickness or the extent, but unless the fish is in obvious pain, give them a chance, some fish are surprising fighters

ya im the same way with all animals .... i dont agree with putting a animal down .... ya never know it could make a turn around .....

 

[ikon]

Hehe, it's potentially one of the worst fish-related chores I think there is
Puffer fish have two dental plates; they look like a 'beak' I guess. They use this to crush shells (generally molluscs, but snails also) of creatures which they naturally feed on. If they're not given hard shelled food like this the beak will keep growing and then you have to manually intervene with dental work to file it/cut it down otherwise the puffer won't be able to eat and will starve to death.

The worst for plate overgrowth are DPs, and the South American Puffer (Colomesus asellus).

Heck, here's some photos of the whole affair (not mine, thankfully!):

ya but ya have the fish out of the water how is it still breathing ?

 

[coldmachineUK]

ya but ya have the fish out of the water how is it still breathing ?

By being put back in water every now and then during the procedure
Like I say, an extremely unpleasant and stressful experience for fish and fishkeeper alike...
I personally think nail scissors are better for the job, but I know some people who've used them and their first attempt at being a puffer dentist ended up with the fish losing its lips in the process :S
Again, not my experience thankfully!

Moral of the story: most puffers are not for the first time fishkeeper, as ridiculously cute as they are!

 

[SparKy697]

i dont know the sickness or the extent, but unless the fish is in obvious pain, give them a chance, some fish are surprising fighters

ya im the same way with all animals .... i dont agree with putting a animal down .... ya never know it could make a turn around .....

That's a whole other topic, but I will say that it is a judgment call. It's also part of the responsibility of caring for pets in your possession. If the condition is terminal, why let the animal be in pain until it's last breath?

 

[ikon]

i dont know the sickness or the extent, but unless the fish is in obvious pain, give them a chance, some fish are surprising fighters

ya im the same way with all animals .... i dont agree with putting a animal down .... ya never know it could make a turn around .....

That's a whole other topic, but I will say that it is a judgment call. It's also part of the responsibility of caring for pets in your possession. If the condition is terminal, why let the animal be in pain until it's last breath?

for one thing its nature .. and 2nd thing .. its " playing god " .. i know this is gonna sound retarded and stupid .. but how do ya know the animal is in " pain " ... i didnt know ya could communicate with animals .. and ya never know the animal could make a miracle recovery.. told ya my logic sounded stupid..

 

[malloc]

After reading the sticky in the sick fish forum, I dropped a dying fish into a container of freezing water (he looked close to death & was being eaten by several other fish). It seemed to work pretty much instantly, as the fish never even moved after making contact with the water- he was wiggling around in the net a lot though.

 

[Sidi]

i dont know the sickness or the extent, but unless the fish is in obvious pain, give them a chance, some fish are surprising fighters

If you have something like TB in the tank killing a fish (and confirm it with tests) it can very well be the best option.

I haven't used clove oil, but I really like the option. I've fed feeders to fish in the past (an eel, mainly) and I used a frowned upon method in the scientific community. Freezing by liquid nitrogen. I found it strange that dropping a live animal into alcohol was fine, and recommended. But dropping it into liquid nitrogen was forbidden. From what I know, and have experienced, from alcohol tissue burns I think liquid nitrogen should kill much quicker and easier.

The whole "slowly freezing" method I won't do though. At the end you may stop feeling pain, but that takes a long time.

 

[gadgetguy]

Probably an old discussion by now, but this is the most humane way I have heard of:

Put the fish in a pail with some aquarium water. Take some more aquarium water in a smaller bucket and mix in a high dose of clove oil. After it dissolves fully, add the clove oil water to the water with the fish. They will go to sleep almost instantly. After they sit in the c.o. water for about 15 min, freeze them.