Experienced vs InExperienced

[amyb_70]

Not sure what is considered a newbie in this hobby. I have 4 tanks. I have lots to learn. I am fairly new, 2 years, back into this hobby. Doing things very different than I did when I was younger.

I don't post a lot in this forum. Because I don't feel that I have anything worth while to contribute. Aside from, do a water change, your tank is overstocked yada yada.

I don't have high tech tanks. I don't breed fish, I don't even call my fish by their scientific names. They have actual names, Joe, orangeboy, felicity, I can't name half the plants in my tanks. But they are all alive, they are all growing. So I guess I am not doing something toooo wrong. But still not much to contribute.

I recently posted a basic thread, help with fish in cycling. I have done it before, but needed some reassurance. I got nothing but helpful advice. And it's working.

I am a moderator on another pet related board. And I get sick if the same questions by newbies over and over and over again. Use the search function people. But then I come here, and post on a topic that I am positive has been posted about 1000s of times. And I thank those that helped instead of being rude.

People forget that there are people behind the words. The internet gives people the power to say things that they would never say to someone's face. It is also easy to regurgitate information without having used said info yourself. It's the internet.

So stay or leave. That's up to you. Either you get the information and camaraderie from the board you seek, or you don't. In the end it's up to you. If you want reassurance and acceptance and sunshine blown up your fanny, and people are willing to do that, cool. But again, in the end, it's all you.




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Love the comment. Well the first 4 paragraph and last. I'm not looking for reassurance or acceptance by any means. That I save for my family, what I would like is to not be treated different because I'm newer at this hobby. If I should not say, for example; IMO, I think etc then that should apply to all especially the one saying not to say those things. Or the guy who told me fish keeping is not opinions is science, but doesn't science grow and expand by using different ideas, thoughts and so on, meaning somewhere someone has to voice their opinion.
I have seen some very impressive replies here and I'm pleased to see that most are more open minded than they come across on some comments I've read.
Technology has many benefits and to much downfalls. Take for example all you folks over 40 yrs old. In school we were taught; how to speak, courtsey, respect, manners, how to write a ligament sentence with punctuation, we knew how to count money, balance a checkbook. Where I am kids are lacking in all these, I've had 12-13 yr old kids give me a handful of money and ask how much was there, I've been asked which hand goes where on the clock for 10:25 a.m. , this frightens me because they are the ones who will be caring for me when I go in a nursing home.
Point here is behind the computer you can't truly tell how someone means something often leading to misunderstandings.


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[amyb_70]

Andy, I'm not a fan of chain stores, if you recall a while back I purchased half dozen angels from a mom & pop shop. All dead within 4 days, they ignored me when I brought the matter to them, with a water sample. The water sample much to their surprise was "perfect". I spent a couple hundred dollars on fish there, the longest survivor lasted almost 3 months. I also got very contradicting information from them. Although I do not believe most ma & pa shops are this way, it leaves someone like me with no choice. I rely on the internet and the folks here, which is why I joined AA to begin with.


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[jetajockey]

Okay. Maybe I didn't express correctly how the confusion and contradictory information is rampant on the internet. What I showed you here was exactly that. These articles clearly contradict what you wrote, Aqua_Chem. While I want to believe everything on here is the truth, how am I, Joe I never kept a tank before and want to learn, supposed to know what or who's advice to follow? If I have someone at a shop, doing it, telling me what they are doing that produced the results I see, at least I have proof that what was being said works. That was the old Mom & Pop shops in most cases. You can only find the information on the internet that you ask for. But what if you don't know what to ask or how to ask it? I got those articles by asking google a question along the lines that you had mentioned in your post. So did I not ask the right question? I don't think so. I was very clear what information I wanted. So now I have multiple sources of info saying you are wrong. How can I believe that you know more than they do?
Maybe I still have that retailer's mindset of wanting to help all my customers, new and old, and not have them losing their fish and leaving the hobby? It's why I fight so hard for the guy or girl just starting. If they can make idiot proof cameras and TV sets, why can't they make the same for fish tanks?

That's easy. You don't take anyone's word alone as gospel. The internet is a far better source of real information than any mom and pop store can ever be.

There's so many scientific journals out there and in some cases direct p2p communication with people who make a career out of studying bacteria, ecology, or what have you. That compared to a pet store owner/worker who likely has little to no scientific background and also happens to be selling you something.

I agree that this level of fishkeeping is over a lot of people's heads initially, but if they are digging for the specifics behind the nitrogen cycle etc then it just makes sense to look into articles that have good citations.

I think I'd rather trust in the ability to research for myself than hang on solely to the philosophy of a pet store owner/worker.

 

[Mebbid]

For instance, the idea of high phosphate causing algae was held as gospel for decades, but we now know that high phosphate levels are relatively innocuous for algae because we can apply ideas like Liebig's Law to disprove it.

Thank you for that link btw I've lost count of people that argued against me when my stance was pretty much the same as what you posted. I never knew there was a name behind it

 

[aqua_chem]

Okay. Maybe I didn't express correctly how the confusion and contradictory information is rampant on the internet. What I showed you here was exactly that. These articles clearly contradict what you wrote, Aqua_Chem. While I want to believe everything on here is the truth, how am I, Joe I never kept a tank before and want to learn, supposed to know what or who's advice to follow? If I have someone at a shop, doing it, telling me what they are doing that produced the results I see, at least I have proof that what was being said works. That was the old Mom & Pop shops in most cases. You can only find the information on the internet that you ask for. But what if you don't know what to ask or how to ask it? I got those articles by asking google a question along the lines that you had mentioned in your post. So did I not ask the right question? I don't think so. I was very clear what information I wanted. So now I have multiple sources of info saying you are wrong. How can I believe that you know more than they do?

But that's kind of my point. When you went to google with the basic search, you got the exact same answer you would get from your LFS most of the time. But if you know how to work google even a little (and in this era, I think there's very little excuse), you can find better answers. But what's more, I can get it instantly. From home. In my underpants if I wanted to.

 

[amyb_70]

But that's kind of my point. When you went to google with the basic search, you got the exact same answer you would get from your LFS most of the time. But if you know how to work google even a little (and in this era, I think there's very little excuse), you can find better answers. But what's more, I can get it instantly. From home. In my underpants if I wanted to.

So for all we know your typing this in your underpants only. ?


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[crazy4fids]

What davehoffman said. I'm in that boat.

 

[Andy Sager]

But that's kind of my point. When you went to google with the basic search, you got the exact same answer you would get from your LFS most of the time. But if you know how to work google even a little (and in this era, I think there's very little excuse), you can find better answers. But what's more, I can get it instantly. From home. In my underpants if I wanted to.

Ok. I think we are beating a dead horse here. You are fighting for the informed and I am fighting for the uninformed. So let's call this what Amy wanted: Agree to disagree.

 

[Andy Sager]

Andy, I'm not a fan of chain stores, if you recall a while back I purchased half dozen angels from a mom & pop shop. All dead within 4 days, they ignored me when I brought the matter to them, with a water sample. The water sample much to their surprise was "perfect". I spent a couple hundred dollars on fish there, the longest survivor lasted almost 3 months. I also got very contradicting information from them. Although I do not believe most ma & pa shops are this way, it leaves someone like me with no choice. I rely on the internet and the folks here, which is why I joined AA to begin with.


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well unfortunately, the chain stores today have limited the number of Mom & Pop shops to choose from. It's a crap shoot now whether they are good or not. "Back in the day" The only time I only had 1 shop to choose from was in the town my Mentor was in. And when I was a wholesaler, in one area, I had 6 shops I delivered to that were on the same street. As I said, it's not like that anymore.

 

[amyb_70]

well unfortunately, the chain stores today have limited the number of Mom & Pop shops to choose from. It's a crap shoot now whether they are good or not. "Back in the day" The only time I only had 1 shop to choose from was in the town my Mentor was in. And when I was a wholesaler, in one area, I had 6 shops I delivered to that were on the same street. As I said, it's not like that anymore.

for sure, 15-20 yrs ago I can think of 6 shops I knew of that only sold fish and reptile things. I didn't keep either at the time, I knew the shops just from driving by and seeing them. I imagine there were more. As a kid my father kept a small aquarium for us, I still remember an angel fish, and what I now know to be a loach. I was fond of both, obviously if I remember from 35 yrs ago. My brother kept a couple huge aquariums at one time. Quit because he lost all the fish during a heat wave. Heat is necessity here AC especially then was a luxury for the wealthy. He lost several hundred dollars in fish alone. This aquarium he had was huge, I'd guess 4' long.
So not sure why ya got half a book from me but ya did. Lol


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