Feeder fish and the ethics question...

[Toker95]

I've got another thread going on the topic of keeping angelfish and neon tetra's in the same tank, whether the angels will eat them or not. see here --> http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=53836

Nonetheless, the topic made me think about it. If you stock a tank with fish that another specie will certainly gobble, is it wrong? Obviously there is an expense standpoint, but from the ethics standpoint, opinions?

I'm not sure what to think, so I'm curious the community thoughts here. I'm sure there are those who disagree with breeding goldfish for feeder purposes, and then there will be the camp that simply argues the laws of nature. It happens in the wild, the feeding fish is simply eating how nature/evolution intended it to.

I think my personal opinion, cost aspect aside, that its OK to stock a tank with natural prey for other tankmates, SO long as the predatory fish will actually consume the prey, versus just injuring/torturing or maiming the prey. I.e. I don't think its ok to stock the tank that way in a manner simply to allow killing for sport.

Your thoughts and opinions?

 

[lyquidphyre]

There are people who have to feed their fish, and if they have to feed them goldfish, as sad as that is, it is their right.

However, with that being said... I would never own a fish that ate other fish.. nor do I think its right when people get a "sick pleasure" out of watching their fish eat goldfish. (im a goldie advocate can't ya tell).. for example someone saying "Goldfish are stupid, I love watching my Oscar rip em to shreds" type thing- I don't feel that is right

 

[Blazeherd2306]

I think that the feeder fish should at least be the natural prey. For example, a natural prey of angelfish are neons. I only feed my fish feeders as a treat and to bring out their natural instincts, not to just watch them get ripped to shreds.

 

[Jchillin]

There is no ethics question if you are feeding your fish their natural diet. If you are feeding fish just for kicks, then there are ethical questions about such behavior.

On another forum I visit, there was a major upheaval when one of their members purposely fed his fish another fish species just for their own amusement. What made it truly shocking was he placed this normally aggressive fish into another tank filled with several aggressive fish of a different species.

 

[Toker95]

I think that the feeder fish should at least be the natural prey. For example, a natural prey of angelfish are neons. I only feed my fish feeders as a treat and to bring out their natural instincts, not to just watch them get ripped to shreds.

I think thats an exact example of what I find myself definately disagreeing with. Thats the 'sport' feeding that I don't think is right at all. And I can completely understand the uprising in the forum where that was made public.

Blazeherd2306 made the point that concerns me the most.... is that whether it should be ok to put neons in with angels, since they are natural prey/predator combination. Unfortunately for me, I want to put them in to keep, not to have die off, and it looks pretty safe that it will happen. Thats not my goal though, not to feed live fish to another. (see other thread linked above)

I think I find myself in the position where live feeders should only be used when other food supplements are unable to maintain health. Occasional 'treating' doesn't sound so bad, but its really got my brain going thinking about it. Hence why I thought I'd bring the topic up.

 

[krap101]

but it's kind of like how people feed mice to snakes or mice to cats right?

 

[Guest]

It's the same thing as having a snake that eats mice or rats. I don't think your "sick" if you like to watch them eat, its a natural part of nature. Is it "sick" to go fishing? I mean i love my tropical fish, but I also love fishing, there's a difference between pets and nature i know, but i was thinking of getting some guppies so they could have fry for my angels, is that wrong? i don't think so, i think it's natural. They are in a simulated environment, in nature, they would eat whatever smallish fish they could fit in their mouth, then there's nothing wrong with them eating it in your aquarium. Personally, i wouldn't spend the money on the Tetra's knowing they would be eating, but breeding the guppy's, well that's relatively cheep.

 

[Lepomis]

Feed away! This is one of my favorite topics who are we going to let decide what is ethical when it comes to subjects? A PETA member I have encountered the following: To some just keeping an aquarium in unethical. Many find the excess finnage so many breed guppies, bettas, etc.... that keeps them from functioning in a natural manner unethical. Genetic modification? Dyes? Wild caught? I have come across people who find placing fish in tanks not decorated in a natural fashion not ethical. Mixing non endemic species? How about anyone keeping fish that has not taken the time to research what is required as unethical (many go through fish like my kids do gum)? Using chemicals and other sources to treat symptoms and not figure out the problems with the system was a favorite of my college roomate. We all have our own values I find the key is just not trying to force them on others. It has been awhile since I have used feeders. But when I did it was a intresting to see some of the feeding behaviors. Neons are a little to expensive as feeders for my wallet but if an angel gets one every now and then from the school no big deal.

 

[talloulou]

My female platy is pregnant and I can't wait for her to give birth because the fry will be such nice treats for some of my other fish, the platys themselves, and my firebelly toads. I don't have any moral problem with that at all. Now, on the otherhand my brother likes to buy big, mean, agressive fish, because he finds their fights the most entertaining. He often has a tank that has nothing in it but a big mean full grown red devil because this was the last fish standing so to speak. Occasionally if he can find a cheap mean big cichlid that someone brought back to the pet shop due to it outgrowing their tank my brother will adopt it and then take it home and throw it in with his red devil to see whats what. Now is that unethical? I'd say so, but I still love my brother. He is the same brother, by the way, that use to have a native tank that he would grow baby bass in until they were big enough to eat. Then he'd fry them up, right from the tank to the kitchen.

 

[QTOFFER]

The only thing I find unethical about feeder animals is the deplorable conditions in which they are often bred and housed. Just becaue they are intended as food does not mean that they should be treated with cruelty.

I have pet mice that I adore, but I really don't have a problem with snake keepers that use feeder mice - so long as the mice are housed and killed in a humane way. I feel the same way about feeder goldfish and guppies.

 

[Guest]

The only thing I find unethical about feeder animals is the deplorable conditions in which they are often bred and housed. Just becaue they are intended as food does not mean that they should be treated with cruelty.

Hit the nail on the head with that! I would never use store bought feeders because they are treated like crap and as a result are often carriers for all sorts of diseases. If you breed your own I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[hashbaz]

Here is an interesting take on the subject: many people like the way some fish "shoal" together. When neons feel threatened they are more likely to shoal together. Housing them with an angle will leave them more likely to shoal.

I say go for it, as long as it is not too expensive!

 

[megladonsharky]

I feed my "finned kids" live black worms when I can afford them .. nature is beatiful... no I would nt like seeing a goldfish shreaded I did leave the room when i feed the wroms

 

[Toirtis]

Goldfish are actually terribly poor nutrition, and can actually lead to deficiencies...go with feeder livebearers, and ones that are themselves fed on a complete, quality diet. As far as the whole ethics issue...in the wild, big fish eat smaller fish, which in turn....you get the picture.

 

[Blazeherd2306]

Blazeherd2306 wrote:
I think that the feeder fish should at least be the natural prey. For example, a natural prey of angelfish are neons. I only feed my fish feeders as a treat and to bring out their natural instincts, not to just watch them get ripped to shreds.


I think thats an exact example of what I find myself definately disagreeing with. Thats the 'sport' feeding that I don't think is right at all. And I can completely understand the uprising in the forum where that was made public.

Did you not see me say that the prey should be the natural prey and that I don't get amusement out of my fish eating feeder fish?

 

[Blazeherd2306]

Goldfish are actually terribly poor nutrition, and can actually lead to deficiencies...go with feeder livebearers, and ones that are themselves fed on a complete, quality diet. As far as the whole ethics issue...in the wild, big fish eat smaller fish, which in turn....you get the picture.

I totally agree with this. In the wild, big fish eat smaller fish.

 

[qwertie]

is us eating beef which used to be a cow un ethical it was alive once mooing in a field, unlill its predetor the human killed it. If neons are Angelfishes natural prey so be it, but i would not feed tetras to angelfish for two reasons.
1. they are far too expensive as a part of the angelfishes diet (your talking 99p a a piece $1.50 approx)
2. wild tetras and tetras you buy at the shop tetras are different, the same wild angels and angels you buy at the shop. now that they have been bred over generations- they are different.
for example where did dogs come from? wolves. wolves are aggresive? they might attack you. now dogs are loyal to there owners most of the time and are playfull othertimes. most dogs like labradors are playfull on occasions.
I know my writing is confusing, but you know what I mean

 

[Blazeherd2306]

1. There has been no record of a wolf killing a human.
2. Livefoods have good nutrition in them (I don't use feeder goldfish) and I don't see a problem in it at all.
3. Angelfish are omnivores and eat little fish, so I do not see a problem with it, we are just trying to mimic their natural habitat.

 

[qwertie]

1. maybe not in east central but it has occurred many times, where do you think the legends and fables and stories come from? packs of wolves can tackle prey much bigger than humans and have killed humans,even domestic dogs have killed humans.
why did I put 1 lol
I was watching a program on telly the other night.... It was about people living in a valley in mongolia, one of the families children got killed... by wolves. children are easy targets for wolves, even fully grown men are.
anyway back to the subject i did not say there was anything wrong with feeding fish fish as long as it was once in a while not every day because it is not neccecery, and i am aware that angelfish are ormivourous as are most other community fish.

 

[QTOFFER]

I wouldn't delibrately feed angelfish store-bought neon tetras for the same reason many people disapprove of feeder goldfish...there is too great a possibility of introducing disease.

As far as housing angels with neon tetras, I would never do it. It's not so much an ethical question, so much as as these two species not compatible (assuming that your intent is to keep the neons alive to watch them).

The rule of thumb with cichlids is never house one with fish that can fit in its mouth, because eventually, it will try! Putting angelfish with neons falls in the same category as putting an oscar in with barbs.