Filter Intake Killng Fish

[fort384]

FYI, not all the "bacteria in a bottle" stuff is a waste of money. I recently cycled a tank with seachem stability in about 5 days. Worked like a champ.

As for your tank, don't get too discouraged. As your tank matures, it will become easier to take care of. Tanks are most vulnerable for all the problems of algae and diseases in the early stages of establishing the tank. Fight through these battles and it will get easier and more enjoyable. I had all sorts of problems with my 29G in the first few months... BGA, ich, BBA, etc. Once I fought each of those battles, the tank became almost maintenance free (just once per week 20% water changes and occasional wipe of the glass).

 

[meegosh]

Well it sounds like you have a few things going for you, believe it or not. The bacteria you purchased will definitely help out in establishing your bacteria colony. Properly handled products (refrigerated at all times) are known to be a reliable source of bacteria. Also, along those same lines, the bio balls you bought from the stores' tanks is a great purchase! This should help seed the tank even more!

The one thing that has me slightly worried is you said you saw a white spot on one of your mollies? Does it look like a grain of salt stuck to its skin? If so that is most likely Ich. This can be treated rather easily by increasing the heat slowly over a few days until it reaches 86 F. After you see the last white spot disappear (if it is Ich) you should should keep the temps up for another week. If you have Ich in your tank that would explain the deaths from different sources (LFS's).

You said in your last post that your nitrates were high. What is the exact reading you are getting? Nitrates are typically fine as long as they are kept below 40ppm, 20ppm or less ideally. I typically have around 10ppm in my 30g (not very planted) and around 3-10ppm in my 10g (moderately planted) depending on when I test and do water changes. My tap water measures 10ppm of nitrates all the time. Nitrates aren't as harmful as ammonia or nitrites, only in high amounts.

Getting your tank up and running can be stressful but after things settle down it is by far the least stressful hobby I am involved in. I find myself staring at my tanks instead of watching TV on a daily basis. Just give it time, keep up on testing your water and water changes. With all your seeded material that you have added, you should be well on your way to keeping a successful tank! Best wishes and good luck!

 

[jim692]

I have tried two different HOB filters and two different canister filters and I have lost one fish to each of them. They were sucked up against the intake of the filter....Any ideas how I might prevent this?

As stated the sponge over the filter intake is very effective.

These were robust healthy fish that have been in the tank for a month. I just put the new filter on ....

Any changes in the tank environment (adding fish, equipment, temp, pH, etc.) can stress the fish causing other issues.

internal parasites and diseases, just plain bad fish can happen.

So true.

You may be right but each of the four dead fish came from different stores. This morning I noticed white spots on the Mollie's tail. I suppose that is some awful disease too. I feel like I should have never invested in an aquarium.

Don't give up yet. You are doing well. It's like learning anything else. Once the tank is fully cycled and stable you will have much greater enjoyment of it. Read the articles on cycling, acclimation of new fish, QT tanks, and ick in the articles section of the website. They are very helpful.
I quarantine new fish in a small side tank (QT tank) for 3 weeks before adding to the main tank to check for disease, etc. Then if the fish are sick I can treat them in the small tank and not effect the main.

. I declined that saying I had been through enough already and just wanted something very simple which would be efficient and quiet so I went with the Aqua Clear HOB. It has been quiet and appears to be keeping the water clean and it also has the media for the good bacteria.

Aquaclear makes a great HOB filter. Were you running both filters together when you switched to the Aquaclear?

. The key here is I never took the internal filter out so it should have retained the beneficial bacteria. In addition to that I seeded the tank with beneficial bacteria which I bought from the fish store...

I noticed this morning one of the mollies has white spots on its tail so I assume the tank is now infected with ich. The tank has been set up for a month. The last time I added new fish was last weekend a few of the tetras. I also have a UV filter which has been turned off after adding the beneficial bacteria at the request of the fish store owner.

I subscribe to the theory of keeping it simple and using minimal additives to the tank. A good dechlorinate, (I like Seachem Prime) and that's it. I will use treatments for disease where necessary, but only as needed.
Weekly water changes seem to be great for problem prevention and water parameter stability.

You say the tank has been running for a month? You are probably in the middle of a cycle. Check water parameters daily and do a partial water change (PWC) when your ammonia or nitrites get at or over .25 ppm. To keep the fish healthy you may need daily PWC's. A good liquid reagent test kit like the "API freshwater master test kit" can help with getting accurate readings.

What are the water parameters currently?

 

[Curious1]

Sorry, I meant Nitrite not Nitrate levels were high. I don’t remember the exact reading but I do remember that it was high on the color chart. From what I remember this morning the spots on the Molly's tail just appear to be white dots. Would copper sulfate work on ich? I'm going to be going on vacation soon and am afraid to set the heater up while I'm gone. I guess I just need to chill out and let nature run its course. I will keep testing the water and as soon as the nitrite levels go down I'll assume the tank has cycled. I won't buy any more fish until I know it is absolutely fine. I had a aquarium as a kid and I really don't remember it being this sensitive. Maybe ignorance was bliss?
My tank has the Aqua Clear HOB filter, the Fluval internal filter, an air stone wand across the back and a UV filter which is currently not running until the bacteria can take hold. The internal filter has been running the entire time through all of the various filter changes.

 

[meegosh]

I would not use any medications to treat Ich. I just use the heat method. I used it once in my own tank and many times in my friends tanks (they don't QT, and never learn). Adding copper sulfate will prevent you from keeping invertebrates in the future, just thought I'd mention that.

If your nitrItes are high (above .25ppm) do a water change until they get below .25ppm. Same goes with ammonia.

I think keeping fish years ago was easier because the fish were healthier and less inbred than the fish we get at our fish stores now. That is just my personal opinion on it, I'm sure there are a million other reasons (less additives in our tap water) to why the fish seemed to be healthier years ago. I remember my grandpa keeping a whole fish room in his basement and I don't think he ever used a dechlorinator or anything else.

 

[Jaybird]

That the bottled bacteria was refrigerated is a good thing. Often people buy the un-refrigerated ones, which won't really do anything. Getting some of the bio-balls from the store's tanks will do a lot more for your tank than the bottled bacteria.

You should be fine with just a HOB filter in a 29G tank. If it was a larger tank it might be wise to shift to a canister filter, but a 29 is fine with just a HOB type.

Adding chemicals to lower nitrates will only mask the problem. That you are reading high nitrates is not a bad thing. It means that your bacteria are working. The best way to lower nitrates is to do water changes.

As mentioned above, Seachem Prime is a great decholinator to use. That's all I used when I had freshwater tanks. Not to say that other brands don't work equally well.

Also, it was good advice to turn off the UV filter when adding the bottle bacteria. No sense sterilizing the water of them until they get into the substrate, decorations, and filter media.

 

[jim692]

What are the pH, temp, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings of you tank?

 

[Curious1]

From what I can remember this morning the temp was 80 f., the water was on the alkaline side, nitrite was on the high side and nitrate were low. I don't remember the kit having a test for ammonia.

 

[Jaybird]

What test kit are you using?

Any test kit you get for any aquarium (fresh, brackish, salt) should have, at the minimum, tests for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

 

[mfdrookie516]

sounds like strips... which are innaccurate to say the least...

 

[Curious1]

They are strips.

 

[mfdrookie516]

get a liquid test kit... strips are horribly innaccurate

 

[Curious1]

I bought a better test kit tonight and it showed the following results:

Ph 7.6
Ammonia 2.0
Nitrite 2.0
Nitrate 5.0

 

[fort384]

I would do an immediate 75% water change. You want ammonia and nitrite under .25. I think ammonia and nitrite are killing your fish, not the filter intake. Until the tank is fully cycled you need to do daily partial water changes.

 

[mfdrookie516]

agreed

 

[dkpate]

Yes, that is a lot of ammonia! You need to be doing about 50%-70% pwc's every day, (I went through the same thing, although my ammonia never got that high, only had one fish), until you can get your ammonia and nitrite to zero. You might even want to do 2 pwc's a day? It might be too late for the other fish you have in there too, since ammonia burns their gills. Make sure the water you put in is within 1-2 degrees from what is in the tank. I wish you luck and hope you are not on metered water lol!

 

[Curious1]

Thanks for your reply. I’m going to just have to let nature take its course. I am not here all day and can’t do two water changes and to try to meter the water to make sure it is within one to two degrees of the aquarium temperature is more than I have time to undertake. I was told yesterday to increase the temperature of the water to 86 to get rid of ich. I really wish at this point I’d never have gotten an aquarium. I will warn everyone what a nightmare it is and for them to avoid it like the plague. Of course if the aquarium cycles itself and becomes self containing like everyone else on here says it will maybe I’ll have a different opinion but for now this is how I feel. Ugh.

 

[dkpate]

I understand. Although I felt worse for my fish than I did myself! Do you use a water conditioner? If you do, then it should not take you that long to change the water in your tanks. I can change all of my tanks (50%) in 45 minutes, and I use water out of the bathtub spout. I do use a "python" system for my 75G though, which makes life a little easier! And your tanks will get cycled eventually as long as you keep doing pwc's. One of my tanks took 5 weeks, one took a week (I used Biozyme bacterial starter), and the 75G and one 20 G didn't even have a cycle, since I used established media from someone elses tank. Maybe you have a friend or an LFS who would take the fish if you don't want them?

 

[Jaybird]

The problem is that the tank hasn't fully cycled. The fish produce waste (ammonia) and your tank lacks enough bacteria to convert that ammonia into nitrites. There is another bacteria that will convert the nitrites to nitrates. The nitrates are then removed by water changes and to a much, much, lesser degree by plants.

I'm not sure what fish store you are going to, but they should have told you about cycling your tank first. There is some good information on this site about cycling your tank. I stole these from the signature of another member:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...ks-for-your-fastest-fishless-cycle/Page1.html


http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ady-have-fish-what-now-116287.html#post983258


Water changes on a 29 gallon should be fairly easy to do. Take off the top and use a small contain to empty the water into a larger bucket. Empty the bucket. Refill the bucket from the tap (making sure the water is as close as possible to the tank water in temperature)...add Prime (or some other dechlorinator). Use the small container to empty the newly refilled bucket into the tank. Voila!

You'll need to do this to keep the ammonia and nitrite down until the cycle finishes. You'll know when the cycle is finished as you will start getting consistent readings of zero ammonia, zero nitrites, and your nitrates will keep going up.

Once the cycle is complete you will need to do either weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly water changes. Those will depend on what you have in your tank, and how quickly your nitrates increase.

 

[fort384]

LOL it takes maybe 15 minutes to do a 70% PWC on a 29G tank. If you don't have that kind of commitment level, I would say you would be best to break your tank down and sell it. Aquariums even after established require regular maintenance. If you don't enjoy it than the hobby isn't for you. Better to just get rid of it now.