Fish keep dying after water changes

[Joeyblaze8814]

Hi all,

I've have a fully cycled tank for about 2 months now. I had 8 rainbow fish in the tank for a few weeks and they all seemed to be doing great up until 2 weeks ago. After I changed the water (30% water change) 2 of the rainbows died 2 days later. I did another water change 2 days ago and today I see another rainbow staying at the top of the tank (same symptoms I saw in the two that died. I tested the water and all parameters are good (0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, very little nitrates) I add 3 caps of prime to the tank during the water changes (its a 75g tank using the python) the only thing I could possibly think it could be is a fluctuation in Ph, but I'm not sure.

Kh - 3 drops changes water from blue to yellow
Gh - 5 drops changes from orange to green

Honestly no clue what the Kh or Gh should be,so not sure if this is good or not

I have crushed coral in my filters

Any ideas what could be killing the fish?

 

[coralbandit]

Why do you have crushed coral in your filter?
If you don't know what your kh/gh should be [they seem fine] why would you intentionally supplement them?
Do you know the readings for your source water? or is that what you gave?

 

[Joeyblaze8814]

When I was cycling the tank, the Ph would constantly crash. I put the crushed coral in the filters to keep the Ph up.

The readings from my source water normal 0 ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.

The Ph out of my tap is lower than what's in the tank, that's why I think the Ph might be the issue. Just have no idea what to do in order to fix

 

[Toad]

Did you add the right amount of stuff to take out any chlorine?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Joeyblaze8814]

I add 3 capfuls of prime each water change. My tank is 72g

 

[Potluck]

3 cap full holy mackerel , that's 15 ml you only treat the amount of water going back into the tank, are you temperature matching the water?


30% of 72 is 21.6 gallons removed, if you add 21.6 gallons back into the tank you would only use 2.2-2.5 ml you are dosing over 7x the amount of prime which can be the issue of all your problems.

 

[nirbhao]

3 cap full wtf, that's 15 ml you only treat the amount of water going back into the tank, are you temperature matching the water?


30% of 72 is 21.6 gallons removed, if you add 21.6 gallons back into the tank you would only use 2.2-2.5 ml you are dosing over 7x the amount of prime which can be the issue of all your problems.

Nope.

Or rather, what about a Prime overdose would cause fish to die two days later? Here's what SeaChem says about overdose.

You don't need that much Prime, but it's very unlikely that it's what's causing the sudden deaths of your fish.

I recently started using a python for water changes, and I'm so nervous about chlorine that I add 5ml straight to the tank before adding water. Slightly expensive way to deal with anxiety.

 

[Potluck]

Yes 7x is way to much, 15 ml for 21.6 gallons, when dosing that high it will deplete oxygen levels in the tank, I've read many many articles where people have overdosed and woke up to half their tank dead

 

[Potluck]

Your fish are gasping because the lack of oxygen, if you have an airstone turn it on full see if the fish stop gasping and get better, but for future reference there's absolutely no need to dose that much prime you only dose the tap water that's going back into the tank at the recommended dose, you can go over like me for example I change 18 gallons of water and dose 2-2.2 ml.

I have a statement from a post where the guy talked to a seachem representative, had the exact same symptoms as the OP, fish gasping for air, ph fluctuations, deaths after water changes the works.

 

[coralbandit]

Maybe heavy as I did no math but when using a water changing device you add prime for the whole volume of tank ,NOT the gallons replaced....
I use safe so I can't say if that is too much or not,but seachem says prime is safe up to 5 x normal dose...
Personally I don't see 7x that much higher then the 5x dose ,but really can't say for sure...

 

[Joeyblaze8814]

Everything I've read said that if I use the python to change the water (which I do) I should dose for the entire 72g, not just the water I'm replacing

 

[Potluck]

Why would you have to dose the whole thing?? Is no different than a regular vac it just hooks up to the sink

And even at that you're double dosing and

 

[Potluck]

Maybe heavy as I did no math but when using a water changing device you add prime for the whole volume of tank ,NOT the gallons replaced....
I use safe so I can't say if that is too much or not,but seachem says prime is safe up to 5 x normal dose...
Personally I don't see 7x that much higher then the 5x dose ,but really can't say for sure...

I thought you dosed for the full tank too, maybe it is different with a python but with my vac you just treat the water you replace the fish water is already set

 

[coralbandit]

If you treat your water in a bucket or outside tank then proper amount is fine.
I even half dose my safe and the chlorine test say I am all good! So have my fish for years!
But according to seachem if you install the prime directly to the tank then you add dose for entire tank volume...That is just what it says so , just what us sheep do? IMO it makes the people who use water changing systems pay for their 'luxury' ???

I stretch and reach for many reasons ,but IMO people are so bad at math and following directions that if it were the prime we would see a lot more of this from keepers???
Sea chem is pretty reputable so if they say it then it must be possible , but I would not put that on top of choices??

 

[Potluck]

I just read a really long forum on this, it does say to dose the whole tank but can be modified if the owner knows what his tap paramiters are, and that he can get it from his city, call me silly but I enjoy the whole bucket method, but there's many many many posts about people having the same issue especially when dosing "in" tank because they overdose he's not overdosing to bad at 2x but I would crank up the air stone if he has one and see if it helps.


The whole gasping at the surface does make sense about oxygen depletion but I'm not an expert.

If he's not temperature matching that could also be an issue

 

[nirbhao]

I have a statement from a post where the guy talked to a seachem representative, had the exact same symptoms as the OP, fish gasping for air, ph fluctuations, deaths after water changes the works.
View attachment 291441

The statement I linked from the SeaChem representative- which you can read in its entirety, not just a sentence that fits your needs with its context redacted- specifically addressed overdose. That representative said that dosing up to five times is safe.

Why would you have to dose the whole thing?? Is no different than a regular vac it just hooks up to the sink

The water comes directly from the sink to the tank. It's not about the removal.

That is just what it says so , just what us sheep do? IMO it makes the people who use water changing systems pay for their 'luxury' ???

I'm not sure about your intent, but-- sheep? Luxury? I had been adding one quart at a time from the sink into one of those in-the-fridge pitchers because the bucket method was physically not possible for me. Using 5ml instead of 3ml will deplete that 500ml bottle a little more quickly, but that's worth it for me to be able to avoid the one quart at a time method without being afraid that I'll kill my pets by burning them.

I stretch and reach for many reasons ,but IMO people are so bad at math and following directions that if it were the prime we would see a lot more of this from keepers???

+1

call me silly but I enjoy the whole bucket method

It's fine for you to have preferences, but you have to keep in mind that's all that they are.

Water changes now take about 15 minutes. Getting the hose hooked up is the most time consuming part. It's AWESOME to not have to spend hours with my previous method. Even for people who do have the physical ability to lift buckets full of water as high as their heads, things like the python completey remove to likelihood of dumping five gallons of water all over everything.

 

[coralbandit]

I'm not sure about your intent, but-- sheep? Luxury?

I meant no to little insult to most . It is just that there are chlorine test kits that cost no more then any of the other test everyone gets.

I HAVE done test with the product safe [dry version of prime] and I have dosed 1/2 of what they recommend and never seen a hint of chlorine OR any irritation from my fish....So sheep comment fits most who just do what they are told ...Especially if they DON'T understand but think they do and act like it ...
For the cost it is not really expensive to dose heavy to be on the safe side.
As much as hopefully everyone knows that we do all have different water we all may also have different levels of chlorine or even chloramine which may NEED more of the product to give the wanted effect.

Luxury is just me being cheap and old enough that only waterbed owners have those contraptions!
They certainly serve a far greater purpose for many and allow them to be better keepers so I have no issue with them at all.
I apologize if I made the implication they were not a necessity or good choice of tools for many.

 

[nirbhao]

The thing that strikes me is that it takes two days for the fish to die.

 

[coralbandit]

The thing that strikes me is that it takes two days for the fish to die.

That is even more interesting as I understand the effects of prime last only one or two days at best...If there is no nutrients then maybe longer ,but in tanks with a bio load it is 24 hours most believe...

Prime - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki
It is the references in this link that are worth reading...

 

[Andy Sager]

There is actually 2 different issues going on here that need to be addressed. The first is the fish, the second, the water changing system.
One of the issues with Rainbowfish is that they are sensitive to changes in their water. Not necessarily the water quality but the water itself. This may be why you are losing them after your water changes. The fact that it is within 2 days of them does not eliminate the WC as the culprit. In my opinion, with Rainbowfish especially (as well as any other sensitive fish), you would be better off changing less water, say 10% of tank volume, a couple of times per week than doing a 1 time 30%. That way, there will be some replacing of elements with the new water, reduction of nitrates and a reduction in the amount of change after each WC and by changing less water each time, you are also reducing the amount of undesirable chemicals that may be coming in with the new water as well as reduced temperature fluctuation.

As for how you change that water, using the python to remove the water is one thing but.... and again, this is directed towards sensitive fish more than just an overall situation, having water pre-made and conditioned prior to doing those water changes might have a better effect on the fish than pouring in the tap water then dechlorinating/ conditioning. This way there would also be less of a cost per use for the PRIME as you would only be conditioning the amount of water you are adding and not the entire tank volume.

Hope this helps