Fish that should come with WARNING stickers

[Toirtis]

You are fortunate...he is still small...I had a few commons go from 3" to 12"-14" in about a year, and I see all sorts of 14"-18" ones traded into fish shops...they are scary fish when the are pushing that size, and still barely half-grown.

 

[richiestang_78]

Yeah, he doesn't seem stressed and never has been sick, he just sucks on driftwood or on a nice algae spot on the glass and stays there most of the day. I'm hoping my LFS I go to know will take him as they have huge tanks or find someone with a larger tank.

 

[Corey]

Surprised nobody's mentioned it yet - PUFFERS!

They have to easily be one of the worst. I'd imagine the vast majority of puffers traded commonly are improperly housed.

Most commonly traded species get 6"+ and need over 50g PER fish, all require snails in their diet (which pretty much requires a snail breeding tank), most commonly traded species require at least brackish conditions (many full marine as they age), and most will rip other fish apart, or at least make them cower in the corner.

Definitely a special care fish, that would need a "red" and "yellow" warning, as well as a "snail" and "salt" warning, heh.[/b]

 

[jbarr]

Puffers? To be honest I've not seen any FW puffers other than DPs. And from what I understand they get to be about 1". What other common FW puffers are there?

 

[Toirtis]

Puffers? To be honest I've not seen any FW puffers other than DPs. And from what I understand they get to be about 1". What other common FW puffers are there?

You would be surprised how often I see fahakas and mbu in even non-specialty LFSes, and green spotted puffers are common as dirt.

 

[Corey]

Puffers? To be honest I've not seen any FW puffers other than DPs. And from what I understand they get to be about 1". What other common FW puffers are there?

That's kind of my point - the most commonly traded puffers (Figure 8's, Green Spotteds and Ceylons) are almost always sold as freshwater but actually require brackish (for Figure 8's) or near full marine (for GSP's and Ceylons).
Most dwarf puffers are nasty little buggers. Don't let their size fool you; they will terrorize a tank with much bigger fish than them. Generally they need to kept in a species only tank.
Also, like toirtis mentioned, you see Mbus and Fahakas (true freshwater puffs) at stores; Fahakas grow to well over a foot long, require a tank larger than feasible for most people, and are extremely aggressive and generally need to kept alone. Mbus get over *2ft* and would literally require a ridiculously large custom tank to house correctly and avoid stunting.

Basically, you really need to plan for a puffer, which I would say the majority of people looking for fish don't do.

Really the only common, "reasonable" freshwater puffer is a South American Puffer (though I've never personally seen one in a store), though they still have special needs like regular manual tooth trimming and a diet of snails.

 

[coldmachineUK]

Surprised nobody's mentioned it yet - PUFFERS!

See page one of the thread:

Back on topic: colombian sharks, and GSPs are good examples of brackish fish which need larger-end tanks.

Yes, GSPs are often taken in without the proper reading having been done first. This puffer definitely requires high-end brackish to low end marine conditions in its adult life, which not many people realise.
It's debatable as to whether F8s actually need brackish water. Fishbase.org specifically states "not a brackish water species", and Neale Monks - in his expert Brackish FAQ - also classifies them as a freshwater species. It's my belief that since 'brackish' as such is a difficult water environment to fully define (the meeting point between river and sea, but it hardly gives us a precise S.G. or ppt salinity, so we have to estimate based on a 'likely range'), it boils down to the fact that F8s will 'do slightly better' in low end brackish. I.e. the addition of a small amount of marine (not aquarium) salt is beneficial, but does not reflect their natural environment.

Certainly most people don't realise what they're getting in to when they buy a puffer fish. 50G, however, as a tank size, is an overestimate for F8 and GSPs. F8s will do fine in anything from a 15G+, and GSPs will do fine in anything from a 30G+

People's experience with housing tankmates with these fish is also varied, making it something hard to predict! For example, some have been able to house bumblebee gobies (BBGs) with F8s without any problems, some have housed black mollies with GSPs, and some have even managed to keep hermit crabs with GSPs over a fairly long period of time (a year or so) without trouble. Some people even manage to house F8s together provided tank size is adequate. However, puffers are known to be unpredictable and they can turn on tankmates without warning at all.

These fish don't need warning signs, they just need a little research first. I don't see why LFSs should be wholly responsible for this: the conversation seems to be going along the lines of "need a license, ban this ban that, LFSs are so unscrupulous". Really, whenever you buy ANY pet you should be reading up about it first, fish are no different. It's down to the consumer: if you buy without researching, well that's your mistake!

 

[Corey]

I agree with most everything you said coldmachine. I mentioned 50g+ because I personally wouldn't keep a 6" blimp of a fish in a 30g tank, but I know that's what's recommended. You sound like a puffer lover as well?
However:

It's debatable as to whether F8s actually need brackish water.

Fishbase gives notoriously bad information.
Figure 8's are known to be more susceptible to disease and generally don't do as well in freshwater. In low end brackish (1.005-1.008), they have been known to live up to 18 years!
Check this link:

http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/puffer/f8puffer.html

I actually believe I remember reading that nmonks actually changed his opinion about them being freshwater fish - he comments quite frequently over at ThePufferForum.com and it is a pretty established rule that they are brackish.
I keep two Figure 8's in a 38g, SG ~ 1.007, and they seem happy and healthy as can be.
I agree that puffers aren't "difficult" fish, but they definitely require special care, even the "easy" ones. It's completely worth it though

(Yes, I have an unhealthy obsession with pufferfish).

 

[coldmachineUK]

A-ha! I bet I have bumped in to you over on that site
I certainly am a puffer lover Got the 'bug' so to speak. They're possibly the most intelligent fish I've ever kept, beyond loaches even (which in my experience have seemed fairly astute themselves!).

I think Neale needs to update his Brackish FAQ then! I know he's active on the Aquaria Central (http://www.aquariacentral.com) site, along with Jeni Tyrell (pufferpunk) - who you will know as well I'm sure - and that's where I've picked up posts and his FAQ: http://www.aquariacentral.com/faqs/brackish/FAQ3.shtml#3e
This is probably out of date then!

Personally I have always kept F8s in low end brackish: I know 1.005 is recommended tops for them, but I usually vary it between 1.003 and 1.005. Since 'brackish' by definition is often a variable climate, it recreates the changing conditions they'd be moving to and from in any case.

I've never heard a bad word said against Fishbase until now I'm not sure what to think! lol. I think they are generally very good over there: it's all scientific data, rather than aquarium based (i.e. where these fish live in the wild). The only thing that I've found to be different is the max. size, because wild fish are generally much larger than their aquarium-bred counterparts.

Good to see there's a fellow puffer fan out there for sure

 

[Corey]

I've never heard a bad word said against Fishbase until now I'm not sure what to think! lol. I think they are generally very good over there: it's all scientific data, rather than aquarium based (i.e. where these fish live in the wild). The only thing that I've found to be different is the max. size, because wild fish are generally much larger than their aquarium-bred counterparts.

You may be right about Fishbase, I didn't mean to bash it - I may even have mistaken it for a different site.
It just seems a lot of those database sites have old/contradicting information, but then again I'm not in the habit of checking very often and am no scientist, so maybe that's an unfair generalization

What kind of puffers do you keep?
I've had my Figure 8's for ~ 4 months now, and they sure are cute/intelligent! I swear they look at my hands when I'm near the tank if I'm carrying anything to see if its puffer food, hehe.
I'd love to get a Porc and maybe even an Mbu someday... I hear they are super personable. I'll need a BIG tank though!

 

[SparKy697]

Don't you agree that every fish has it's own special needs that the uneducated are likely to overlook?

I have to say that I think more information on all fish would be appreciated. I've been in the mega-mart stores and little privately owned fish only stores and I find that I need to go back home and do the homework on what fish is going to be compatable with another.

Wouldn't just about everybody benefit from the type of information that is provided by most online fish stores? I would bet that most people who walk into a store to buy a fish have not done one bit of research. And wouldn't you return to a store who provides you with accurate useful info about every fish they sell?

 

[coldmachineUK]

Corey: Will PM you! I don't want to be accused of thread hijacking!

Sparky: I agree in part, in that LFS who help educate their customers will contribute to overcoming part of the underlying problem. But, at the same time, the responsibility does ultimately lie with the customer/fish keeper. If an LFS employee is asked a question, then certainly they should know the answer and impart that information. If they don't, they shouldn't lie or deceive, but direct the customer to a book, or a website, whatever. But, the act of buying a fish places the responsibility for looking after that animal on the purchaser, not on the fish store. I think it's unfair of people who buy a fish they've not researched who later realise its needs are complex or its adult size too big for their current tank, to blame a fish store, or basically anyone except themselves.

 

[physicsdude]

Well, I have a lionhead goldfish, hes around 5" fully grown. lived for a long timer in a 5.5 gallon tank. plenty of space for turning, his own air pump, filter, and food. hes got it good.

well, the only reason why pet stores sell those mammoth fish is for profit. they know people will buy it cause they want the biggest, coolest, nastiest, etc. fish going. kinda like how some pople have suvs; they have to make for something small in their minds so they buy something big. they buy those fish as a status symbol.

 

[hc8719]

Well, I have a lionhead goldfish, hes around 5" fully grown. lived for a long timer in a 5.5 gallon tank. plenty of space for turning, his own air pump, filter, and food. hes got it good.

umm, i think your being sarcastic? i hope?

 

[Todd2]

Red tailed cats.
ANY type of Pirahna (Will eat your other fish)
Red Devils.

There should be ceratin warnings on fish combos too:
African cichlids & South/Central American Cichlids
Convicts & community fish (a lot of people try to stick both in the same tank at work)
Goldfish & Tropical fish (It can work, but doesn't make much sense sticking both in the same tank)

 

[MyCatsDrool]

Some that aren;t listed here:

Angelfish and discus -- They get quite large and have very special needs. Many people buy angel fish as their starter fish, without researching.

Mentioned, but worth mentioning again because I live near the everglades, where careless owners dump them and they have become so prolific here, that they are a nusiance: OSCARS.

Any goldfish. Again, sold as a beginner fish, but not for the beginner at all

Clown loaches: they look so cute and friendly...yet get VERY large

Livebearers - The breed prolifically and will quickly take over a tank

Male Bettas/gouriamis - they can get VERY testy and territorial

Gouriamis again, with the exception of dwarfs: Monster fish keepers keep these as some get HUGE

FW lobsters/crayfish -- They are MEAN

 

[Lonewolfblue]

White Sturgeon
Even a 180G tank wouldn't be large enough, IMO.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=2533

 

[jbarr]

Gouramies get big? Which ones get the biggest?

 

[Toirtis]

Gouramies get big? Which ones get the biggest?

O. gouramy, the 'giant gourami' (see pic), but many other species, like snakeskin gouramis and blue gouramis hit the 4"-8" mark.

 

[dsmalls]

I wonder what (if any) the ethical responsibilities of the LFS are when selling fish. Sure it's not against the law to sell a common pleco to a kid with a 5 gallon talk, but do the employees turn a blind eye against obviously wrong purchasing decisions and sell them just to make a sale?

That's why I don't work at a fish store. I'd turn away folks who make uneducated fish buying decisions.