Fishless cycle stalled? - insane amounts of nitrites...

[shynepo3]

hey eco, i was just reading your guide (excellent btw, wish i had read this before i got our betta), and i have one of those carbon filters. could this be a problem with my cycle? i've never replaced it, nor did i plan to. i actually have two slots, so i was planning on replacing it by taking only 1 old one out (much later down the road), and keeping the other in, and so forth...

but for the meantime, is this filter going to hurt my cycle in any way? it should be ok as long as i dont replace ..?

 

[eco23]

hey eco, i was just reading your guide (excellent btw, wish i had read this before i got our betta), and i have one of those carbon filters. could this be a problem with my cycle? i've never replaced it, nor did i plan to. i actually have two slots, so i was planning on replacing it by taking only 1 old one out (much later down the road), and keeping the other in, and so forth...

but for the meantime, is this filter going to hurt my cycle in any way? it should be ok as long as i dont replace ..?

Hi shynepo3, the carbon itself isn't the problem...I've actually got some running in mine right now to clear up some cloudiness from new CC. The problem comes when they recommend replacing it after 30 days because all the good bacteria thats grown on the filter pad goes in the trash. I'd suggest taking a pair of scissors and slicing the side of the cartridge and shaking the carbon out when it's time for replacement. Then just throw the filter pad right back into the filter. That way you get the benefits of the carbon during the time it's good, but without throwing out any healthy bacteria.

The carbon itself does absorb ammonia, but nothing substantial enough to disrupt your cycle. Glad you liked the article!

 

[shynepo3]

it's probably the most detailed one i've read....amazing job

just wanted to add i lowered the water level to allow bubbles from the filter like your article said, and re-tested. i probably took about 10-15% of the water. and re-tested..

ammonia - 0.50ppm
nitrites - still hard to tell, but if i had to say one, i'd say 1.0ppm
nitrates -40ppm

just going to see how it is tomorrow..i'll re-dose once it gets closer to 0 ammonia..

 

[eco23]

i did not "dose" with pure ammonia at all..i used fish food to start it.... and i did not do any pwcs.... so it seems to stalled on me.... should i do a pwc eco?

Sorry, I just saw your question. I'd need a little more info about what your reading have been during different parts of your cycle...how high has the ammonia been? Have you ever had nitrItes?

I'm happy to help, but do me a favor and post it on the thread in my signature since this is a thread for another member we're in now, thanks!

 

[eco23]

well, i'm a bit disappointed....after 12 hrs since dosing ammoni to 1.0 ( i really hope it was higher and i just tested it quickly, about 5 min after dosing), my current readings are:

ammonia - 1.0
nitrite - could be 1,2 or 5...hard to tell

so where does this leave me? does it take 24 hrs to go down?

Sorry shyne, I'm reading a little slow and behind tonight. Yeah, 24 hours is the measuring stick for how strong your biofilter is. It's a little bit confusing to see such a drastic overnight drop in nitrItes and then have your numbers climb back up. It is possible that you're just watching the conversion of ammo to nitrAtes happen with your test kit. The only thing that concerns me is that from what I've read, you've added some inconsistent levels of ammo, so I'm not exactly sure where your biofilter is without some more time. If I was you, I'd keep being patient and dose the tank up to 3ppm every 24 hours, regardless of what the other readings are. We really want to see your tank take 3-4ppm of ammo down to 0ammo and 0 nitrItes in 24 hours. Everything seems like it's good, just stay consistent with your ammo dosage and I'll keep track of what's happening.

 

[shynepo3]

i was told by someone that dosing to 4ppm of ammonia is too much, especially in a 5 gallon tank that's only going to have 1 betta...is this incorrect?

and no worries....it's good your helping regardless..

 

[eco23]

i was told by someone that dosing to 4ppm of ammonia is too much, especially in a 5 gallon tank that's only going to have 1 betta...is this incorrect?

and no worries....it's good your helping regardless..

Ummmmmm... I see your point. Although 4ppm is considered the norm for cycling, it is designed to be overkill. Even in a 70 gallon tank 4ppm is overkill, simply because it creates such a massive biofilter that it can handle whatever someone tries to throw at it.

Honestly I'd have to take a minute and work it through my head. Technically it's the same process, but when you know what your bioload (fish) is going to be, there might be some tweaks that I can work out for a much smaller tank. I'll check back in a few.

 

[eco23]

I just typed out like a thousand words, and managed to confuse myself when I read it back, lol. So I'll try again (sorry, I'm half asleep )The basics are the same regardless of tank size. Where it gets complicated is the fact that you know there will be such a small bioload, and creating a massive overkill biofilter is not really necessary in your particular case. So technically, there would be no problem conditioning your tank to handle a smaller biofilter.

That being said, and this is where it gets complicated, there are reasons to still use a fairly high dosage for your cycle. #1- the smaller the tank, the less stable it is. They are more prone to future biofilter problems simply because of the lack of surface area (where the bacteria grow), there is simply a fewer number of bacterium that live in the aquarium and small changes can make a big difference. For instance, if you had a big 55 gallon tank with 4 filter pads, losing one wouldn't be a big deal because there's so much other surface area in the tank that the reduction of bacteria won't really have an effect. In a small tank, removing a filter could have drastic consequences.

Long story short...sorry I know it's long...I'd vote for the middle ground and dose up to round 2-3ppm. What will likely happen is that once the cycle is complete, there will still be a very strong biofilter in your tank, once you add your fish the bacteria level will adjust based on the ammonia your betta is putting out. Technically, some of the bacteria is dying off, but the correct amount will remain to handle the waste your fish produce.

So to sum up my (rambling) thoughts, it's better to take a little longer and grow too much bacteria, as opposed to dosing it too low and not having enough to handle what your fish can produce. Better safe than sorry.

I hope this makes any sense, lol. It's past 2am and the bed is calling my name . So Id keep it up around minimum 2ppm for now, and I'll check back soon. Feel free to PM me with any questions, because I'll only be checking the actual threads about once a day. Good night!

 

[shynepo3]

Thanks for the explanation. If I created something that could handle 2-3ppm of ammonia in 24 hrs., and then my betta only
produces .5 per day, won't some of the bacteria die off anyways?

Regardless, good news. I tested this mor, a full 24 hrs after I dosed to 1ppm, and it's 0! Both nitrites and Amm. So u were right Eco, most likely watching the conversion from Amm to nitrites.

I've dosed it to 1ppm and will see what happens in 24 hrs. If 0 again, going to add my betta! Thanks for all the help!

 

[shynepo3]

Ok, 3 hrs after dosing ammonia, these are my readings:

Ammonia - 1ppm
Nitrites - 0.25ppm
Nitrates - 40ppm

If it gets to 0 for Amm and nitrites by tomorrow, I will do a 90% pwc in the mor and by evening add the Berta back in.

I will test tonight and if it's 0 by then instead , I'll do the pwc then and add him in the mor.

Does this all sound good?

 

[eco23]

Ok, 3 hrs after dosing ammonia, these are my readings:

Ammonia - 1ppm
Nitrites - 0.25ppm
Nitrates - 40ppm

If it gets to 0 for Amm and nitrites by tomorrow, I will do a 90% pwc in the mor and by evening add the Berta back in.

I will test tonight and if it's 0 by then instead , I'll do the pwc then and add him in the mor.

Does this all sound good?

Sounds good to me as long as ammo and nitrItes are at 0. Remember, if after you do the large PWC the water tests for ammonia, it's most likely because you have chloramines in the tap water, and as long as you dechlorinate it, it's a false positive and don't worry about it. I can't tell you how many people freak out and think their cycle has gone backwards at this point...I was one of them .

 

[shynepo3]

sorry, one last question...would it be possible to add the castle that i had in my temporary betta home into the tank now? it wouldn't affect the cycle right?
i'm going to rinse it thru hot water, and move it, since i want it in his tank...it was in his temp "tank" cause i didnt want him bored to death in the plain rubbermaid..

 

[CoyoteWildfire]

Nope, that shouldn't affect your cycle. I don't think you need to rinse it with hot water either unless the tank it was in had been sitting for weeks with no aeration or filtration.

 

[shynepo3]

Great, going to put in right now...then go to bed...thanks!

 

[ejaramillo01]

Nope, that shouldn't affect your cycle. I don't think you need to rinse it with hot water either unless the tank it was in had been sitting for weeks with no aeration or filtration.

Agree with coyote, adding decoration should not affect your cycle. I always clean really good with tap water any new decoration (or old), the chlorine in the tap water will help you to eliminate any bacteria, then I rinsed in tank water before is introduce to my tank.

Good luck, sounds that you complete your cycle.

 

[shynepo3]

thanks to everyone..especially eco, coyote and fort. such great help on this forum.

cycle was offically completed this morning, after going thru 1ppm of ammonia twice in 24 hours to 0. i have a question....i would test throughout the day, and nitrites would rise (as it was converted from ammonia), before going to 0 in the 24 hours....am I suppose to see that rise? i always figured it would happen "behind the scences" and i wouldn't see it...especially with 1ppm only...

anyways, i did a big 80% water change, lowered the temp. in about 8 hours from now, when i get home, i'll be acclimating my betta back in. everything sound about right? it's ok that the tank hasn't gotten ammonia since i last dosed it about 24 hours ago?

thanks again...

 

[shynepo3]

oh, it officially took 13 days using seeded gravel and pure ammonia. used prime. 5 gallon tank. also put a tiny bit of fish food once.

i had actually started this a month ago, but after 2 weeks of no nitrites using fish food for ammonia, and no seeded material, i decided to start over. i cleaned the whole tank, 100% water change, got the seed material, and started over.

just the history for anyone who ends up looking here for their cycle.

 

[eco23]

Hey Shyne. Congrats on finishing your cycle! Yeah, you're just watching the ammo to no3 conversion. Fish put a slow steady stream of ammo into the water, as opposed to instantly dosing it up to 1ppm. That's probably the most common question I get because people think things have gone backwards and freak out...I was one of them, lol. Keep in mind too that if you have chloramines in your water, they can cause a fairly high ammo reading as well after you do your large pwc. So don't worry if you see the same thing happen after the pwc. As long as you use your dechlor, the reading is a false positive because it will be nontoxic and the biofilter will eat it up quickly. Good luck with everything!

 

[CoyoteWildfire]

thanks to everyone..especially eco, coyote and fort. such great help on this forum.

cycle was offically completed this morning, after going thru 1ppm of ammonia twice in 24 hours to 0. i have a question....i would test throughout the day, and nitrites would rise (as it was converted from ammonia), before going to 0 in the 24 hours....am I suppose to see that rise? i always figured it would happen "behind the scences" and i wouldn't see it...especially with 1ppm only...

anyways, i did a big 80% water change, lowered the temp. in about 8 hours from now, when i get home, i'll be acclimating my betta back in. everything sound about right? it's ok that the tank hasn't gotten ammonia since i last dosed it about 24 hours ago?

thanks again...

Glad to help! And congrats on getting you tank to cycle! Exciting feeling isn't it? Especially since cycling is one of the most important steps in having an aquarium...