Foaming water

[Autumnsky]

Have a problem with my Edge 6.6 tank.

A few days ago I cleaned out my crystal clear, well established, perfect water param tank because I am getting Orange Eye Blue Tiger (OEBT) shrimp in the mail this week. Took out over 100 Cherry shrimp and put them into my 16G Shrimp tank.

There was lots of gunk in the bottom of the tank under the sand, with 7 rocks and tons of plants, decided to take out everything and rinse the sand and re-scape.

So I did, I rinsed the sand with treated water. put it back into the tank, added an extra five pounds of petco sand, rinsed, re-scaped and added back what I wanted, all the rocks, a new piece of Driftwood which had been soaking for over a week in the other tank, and half of the plants. I left the three Brigittae Rasboras and added three little young guppies to keep up the BB until the OEBT came. Was going to remove the guppies back to their tank.

This is before:

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The water is foaming. Although I washed my hands and my arms before
doing the scape change and sand rinsing, there must have been some lotion residue. Now the filter flow with the water is creating foam. This could explain why the water isn't crystal clear. I use Prime. Also added some stress Coat-Coat for good measure.

At first I thought it was from the Stress-Coat. But this isn't like that, that is more bubbly but goes away after a day or two.

The foam is sort of dense like on a non fat latte, and sort of holds its shape.

I already scooped most of it off about an hour ago, and reduced the flow half it was really foaming up on full blast!

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Already did a 50% pwc the day after.

I will be doing a 75% pwc now to see if that helps and then probably another tomorrow after work, and maybe another after that if it doesn't stop.

This is the tank the Orange Eye Blue Tigers are supposed to go into. The fish are all active and not breathing heavy and eating fine. The lotion was a natural lotion, at this point not immediately toxic, since they are still alive. So hopefully not toxic.

I am just petrified it could have/or be killing the BB, anybody have any ideas, other than pwc's? What about the BB?

How can I tell if it is still alive?



Added the foamy water pic and cloudy water pic. It is slightly cloudy and has a brown tinge from the DW tannins I believe. Camera isn't very good sorry.

 

[absolutangel04]

Have you tried removing the foam by hand, and then doing a pwc to see if it comes back? That is my best advice. If you just do a pwc, you might just mix all the components back in there, so that is why I would scoop out the foam first. I wouldn't bother adding the Stress Coat right now. I am not overly convinced about the benefits of Stress Coat in most situation anyways, but in this case, it seems like fewer additives would be better IMO.
I wouldn't be too concerned about it being toxic since the fish are ok, but I understand your concern.

 

[Autumnsky]

Have been scooping out foam, I just edited the original post and added the pics of the tank, and that I had scooped it out, but in addition, it has been scooped several times a day since.

Edit update: Did a 90% pwc and wiped out all the edges and top and back, anywhere I saw any foam residue. Now waiting to see how it goes with the filter on full force.

 

[absolutangel04]

Sounds good. Keep us up to date, and hopefully it clears up.

 

[Autumnsky]

Still foaming but not as bad, off to work will change it again tomorrow.

 

[Autumnsky]

Home from work, tested the water, still foamy.

Ammo 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2-3 was a little golden (light amber) not yellow but not orange
pH was 7.6 on normal pH test
pH was 7.4 on High test
so I am going with pH 7.5

Water is more cloudy looking now than earlier.

Maybe headed to a bacterial bloom???

Fish and snails are still alive and look alright, so far.

Anyone else have this problem? What did you do?

I am thinking of adding a few Cherry shrimp in there to see how they are affected if at all. ???

 

[absolutangel04]

Your params are good. That is a positive. I think you would be fine to add the rcs and see what happens.
What product have you been treating the water with? I think this is well past the scope of just a little lotion residue on your hands. Though, I do not exactly have a wonderful, brilliant idea of what the issue is.

 

[Autumnsky]

Got a Salifert test kit for KH /Alk. They said it is the same as GH but anyway no one had a GH test kit, everyone was back stocked, on the KH/GH

They said it is the same as GH.

The way I am reading the the 1ml syringe as they say is to point the point end up and read where the black stopper is. Correct???

If it is correct...the number is .78 which equates to 3.2 KH / 1.13 Alk

Water is very foamy, been away from home for 14+ hours ago, and this morning was foamy, took out three scoops, now, evening, there is much more foam.

I will do another pwc of 90%, and will add in half dozen rcs and see what happens in the next day.


I added, 5 lbs of rinsed sand, and Stress-Coat, and the DW (which had been soaking already for almost two weeks in another tank, no foam in that tank).

Have used the Stress-Coat 2/3 of the bottle over the last year, so I have never seen foam, maybe a few bubbles, but never foam!

 

[absolutangel04]

I am pulling at straws here, if somebody else has a better idea, I am sure they will chime in.
I wonder if you are having some reaction with the new elements in the tank. I don't have other ideas, so I still suggest discontinuing the stress coat to see if anything changes.
Next idea, what kind of filter cartridge are you using? Have you tried rinsing that out with tank water? If you can cut it apart, I would just keep the fabric of the cartridge and use it to start seeding a new cartridge and see if that makes a difference maybe.

 

[manbeast]

if the foam has any tinge of yellow or brown theny vote would go to tannins from the driftwood, I know you said it was fine in your 16 gallon but now it's in a 6 gallon 1/3 the gallonage equals three time the concentration of tannins, I have had a pc of Malaysian driftwood in a 20 high for @ a year now and it's still putting out enough tannins to stain the water a deep brown

do you know what type of wood it is?

 

[Autumnsky]

if the foam has any tinge of yellow or brown theny vote would go to tannins from the driftwood, I know you said it was fine in your 16 gallon but now it's in a 6 gallon 1/3 the gallonage equals three time the concentration of tannins, I have had a pc of Malaysian driftwood in a 20 high for @ a year now and it's still putting out enough tannins to stain the water a deep brown

do you know what type of wood it is?

No tinge of yellow or brown, but there was a bit of residue from the black sand, super fine, like a very little amount of dust. But it is white with a tint of grey/black which I am guessing from the sand dust.

The tint of the water isn't really a concern as far as the tannins go for the driftwood. I have had the same experience with water being tinted still in a different tank from the same Malasian DW. This is cloudy AND foaming,

Thank you, as any possible answers would be fantastic.

 

[Autumnsky]

I am pulling at straws here, if somebody else has a better idea, I am sure they will chime in.
I wonder if you are having some reaction with the new elements in the tank. I don't have other ideas, so I still suggest discontinuing the stress coat to see if anything changes.
Next idea, what kind of filter cartridge are you using? Have you tried rinsing that out with tank water? If you can cut it apart, I would just keep the fabric of the cartridge and use it to start seeding a new cartridge and see if that makes a difference maybe.

Thank you for trying!

I appreciate your input!

Stopped using the stress-coat, and just using Prime. btw there are no added ferts, pellets or liquid.

It is a Fluval Edge. The filter is stock. It has a filter tray with 2x3x3 appx., chunk of foam, with a one year old bag of crushed carbon, and on top of that are little solid /porous ceramic circle shaped media pieces called Biomax, which are covered in water from the filter pumping the water.

Yesterday one of the guppies tails were looking a little ragged, and it didn't before so I took out all the fish and there are just a few snails roaming around now.

Yesterday I bought a new carbon bag and put it in this morning.

Also I bought a new kit which is a new chunk of foam with a bag of the BioMax, and a seperate bag of Ammonia remover ("ammonia removing resin") looks like ammo chips in a bag, just to have on hand.

Haven't changed out the original media other than the carbon, which I normally wouldn't have done, due to the planted tank.

TODAY'S PLAN 3/7
I am going to change the water 90%, wipe the inside, rinse the filter in treated water, and refill with new Prime treated water with the new carbon still in there, and see what happens.

I spoke with the lfs lady and she thought it might be some sort of bacterial bloom due to the new sand and maybe not rinsing it enough. I can see that thought for the cloudy part but not for the foaming.

And yes it is still foaming but the bubbles seem larger, less like the foam on a Latte, look pretty much like the bubbles in the pic I posted before and today nearly cover the top of the tank since the water level is a wee bit low. and haven't scooped it out since yesterday.

Any and all thoughts and suggestions are still welcome.

As a side note, I will be kicking one of my bettas out of his 2.5G well established tank and using that when the Orange Eye Blue Tigers arrive. I just cleaned out the sand and re-scaped the tank to make it good for the OEBT arrival, tomorrow I believe. No foam in that one.

Not my first choice but putting them into my 16G jungle with a moss wall and over 150 cherry shrimp, scared me as I would probably never see them again!!!!

Edit update - afternoon - finished water change 90+% wiped and rinsed everything in treated new water added the new Biomax to the top of the filter to start building more BB.

Removed the driftwood. It was covered in foam, it was under the outflow. One less factor to consider now. Also removed the sponge pre-filter as there aren't any fish or shrimp to worry about being sucked up. Hope this does the trick.





??? I have appx .25 ammonia in the tap water and am liberal with the prime, not crazy, (all the other tanks are doing fine) should I go ahead and add the ammo chips bag too, due to the ammonia in the tap.

 

[Autumnsky]

Nope, still foaming and still cloudy.

So very frustrating!

Should I try rinsing the sand over again and then just re-cycle the tank, what if it doesn't stop foaming.....EVER???

JK I am sure eventually it should stop. Right?

What is causing this? anyone?

I am gonna PM Aqua_Chem.

 

[aqua_chem]

Hmm, interesting. Honestly, how thoroughly did you wash your sand? How many times, how long, etc?

I actually had this exact same thing happen to me, except that time it was with the horrifically pink petco gravel. If I remember correctly, we ended up just tossing it because A) we didn't want to deal with it because B) it was just so pink.

Aside from copious water changes, there's really not much you can do using traditional methods. However, if you're willing to get creative, we can try some things. Have you considered just trying to bubble this crap out? Maybe hook up an airstone and make as much foam as possible, removing the foam periodically until you run out of whatever surfactant is causing them. Hopefully there's not that much in there.

 

[Autumnsky]

Thanks Aqua_Chem.

The sand thing is interesting.

Original 15 lb and 5 lb bags I used of the black sand a year and more ago were sort of flaky, and I would describe them more as light and fluffy.

THIS Petco and was very fine, like Caribsea SuperNaturals if you have ever seen/used it. Heavy and more dense.

I have used the blue Petco and another one which is "desert sunset " (don't know color name, kinda orange) colored sand, and just recently added both bags into different tanks for Bettas, 3 in the last three months and they were all rinsed, but had really no residue and never foamed.

So I have used at least 5 different bags over the last 1+ years. The blue and sunset were more fine than the fluffy black, I got originally, no silt, dust, etc. All rinsed until the water was clear, and then again for good measure but really no cloudiness like construction sand at all.

That said, this last bag - 5 lb black, added to the existing "fluffy" sand, was separated into three sections and rinsed in the extra large Tupperware cereal keeper, kinda shaped like a wide box of cereal.

Process was dump in 1/3 sand rinse with tap water running my had back and forth in the container, each time dump water and repeat a few times til clear, then rinse with treated water, run hand through it to make sure it was dechlorinated as to not damage BB which might be left on existing sand, dump into tank. Repeat.

The last 1/3 I only rinsed with tap water 1x as the others has been so clear and not dirty. Maybe that was the 1/3 I should have rinsed more, as it was the bottom of the bag. But it wasn't dirty, dusty or cloudy.

Have tried the filter flow on max - more foam faster and taller foamy head, lol, and on low, less foam but same foam none the less, spread over the top of the tank. There are two snails still roving around alive. I have added Prime when doing the water changes.

SO... today's plan 3/9 (work all day/evening, and the blizzard has started) for tomorrow 3/10 will be to remove everything and rinse.

By the way, last night, started it last night, lol, like 1 AM, I just rinsed out (sand included) and rescaped my 32G flat back hex QT which has the original "fluffier" sand and this morning it is 95% clear, and NO FOAM.

Stopping by the store near my work and see what kind of substrate they have. Buy some if anything seems good. Other wise maybe order something online. Heard negatives and positives for the Fluval Shrimp substrate.

????????????????
How can I tell if this has ruined my BB?

Also as a side note, I will be putting my new TINY Orange Eye Blue Tiger shrimp in their 2.5 gallon, home in a minute.

Sorry Sparky, my Crowntail Betta, who so graciously offered his 2.5G condo for the new babies. He is going to hang out in a 1G - kinda like an RV vacation/roadtrip for him, although he's only going about 24" away, kinda a short trip, short term till we decide what's going to happen with the rabid foaming Edge. Maybe a new tank....

Posting a new thread tomorrow about it.

 

[Pongeer247]

I have recently come across a similar problem. I have clear foam across the top of my 14 gallon tank. I have been doing pwc every other- every three days. After the pwc foam goes away for about a day before returning. My fish seem to be doing fine (4-card tetras, 2-fancy guppies, 5 guppy fry and 2 African dwarf frogs). I know not much help, but looking for answers as well.

 

[Deftpunk79]

I'm betting some chemical hitch-hiked in on the sand. If your fish don't seem to be bothered and your ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are measuring well; then I wouldn't worry too much about it. Your bacteria seem to still be healthy. Just keep changing water and scooping out the suds.

 

[thomasina]

I am curious about if you take the foam, but it in a container, and let it sit. Does it stay foam or does it revert to water? Chemical foam usually stays as foam. Had a similar problem when I added a new air stone that I neglected washing out. I know that this comes from your filter. Have you tried putting something in the flow as to see if the filter is just causing to much air? Maybe some floss, a sponge, some cotton batting? I wish I could help you.

 

[Autumnsky]

Hello, thank you for your help and comments. I put the flow on low maybe a week or so ago. Haven't changed the water, the snails seem very happy and they are still there, my tap water has .25 ammonia in it, so I have been topping it off with Prime treated tap water perhaps it will keep the BB going, along with every couple days feeding the snails.

Yesterday when I went to the house (middle of moving), I found the tank water crystal clear, like it used to be.

There was still foamy bubbles upside the top glass of the top in the (Edge) tank, with lots of residue, like what you might see as salt from a SW tank or bad hard water film, after I had some days of evaporation.

Our water is usually 6.5 pH, lately due to city water source change is now 7.4 pH (haven't checked it this week), but I will be moving the tank in the next day or so.

We usually have a low TDS too.

I am going to do a pwc today or tomorrow of 75% when I move the tank.

***************

Anyway...

Yes maybe the sand company was using a cleaner/chemical of some sort when producing the color for the sand or changing from one color to the next and didn't rinse well.

Last night I turned up the filter flow to FULL so I will see what has happened when i go back today. After the water change and make sure the water params are good I will add a couple guppy juveniles and see how they fare.

Still I am frustrated not being able to pin point one factor to isolate THE cause. In the future, I will make sure to triple rinse everything AFTER I feel it is clean, as a safety measure.

If the guppies seem to do well I will complete a couple more 75% pwc /wipe downs of film, try a few cherry shrimp to see how that goes.

Thomasina - It has a very small box for the filter, I will see if I can find a water polishing filter pad and add that, and maybe a resin base stone type filter media for filtering out particles to trap anything else. Don't have time for researching that atm, anybody know of one???, but maybe next week. Thanks for the suggestions.

I am wondering too if it was a little bacteria bloom which made it cloudy and if it was time which fixed it or if it was the carbon... so many variables!

Anyone else too, comments, suggestions, experiences all appreciated!!!

 

[Pongeer247]

Update on my foam. Still doing pwc regularly. Today I did a 50% wc came back a couple hours later and foam was all the way across top of tank. I scooped out and put in a bucket and let sit. Foam went back to water. Freaked me out a bit, this is the worse it has been.