goldfish?

[mango]

Not new to fish, just goldfish. Hope this is the right forum.

Set up:

5g hex (uninhabited for 2 weeks between guppies and goldfish)
1.5" gravel substrate
biowheel and carbon filtration
10w fluorescent bulb
no heater (tank temp is stable 70 at night and 74 during day with light on)
fast-growing floating plant (cabomba I think, but not sure)
1.25" ramshorn snail
1" blue mystery snail
1.5" calico fantail goldfish (for 4 days, Wednesday to Saturday)


My boyfriend has been bothering me as long as I can remember about getting goldfish, freshwater crabs and/or crayfish. I absolutely refuse to get anything with claws that might go after the slow moving fish in my community tank. I finally gave in last week and decided I would let him keep a goldfish as an anniversary present. It lasted 4 days.
I've always shied away from goldies as I've heard they are notoriously difficult to keep. My cousin has kept 4 2"-3" fish in 10g with inadequate filtration, infrequent vacuumings, sporadic water changes and overfeeding for more than 1 year now. So I figured, well, how hard can they actually be if they seem to thrive in her tank?

The symptoms with this goldfish started out with lack of balance and seeming inability to swim anywhere other than at the bottom of the tank. I added 1/2 dose of MelaFix as I already had 1/2 dose in the tank (I use 1/2 dose MelaFix standard with all new arrivals) and checked the water quality, Nitrate 10, Nitrite 0, pH 7.8. Everything seemed fine with the water so I went to the internet and read about goldfish problems. Apparently it wasn't the healthiest fish when we got it, but that's my fault for not reading up on goldfish behavior beforehand. Symptoms progressed to swimming upside down on the tank bottom with fins clamped. Did an 80% water change and did not treat with MelaFix as I thought that might be part of the problem. It died in about 12 hours. I think it died from a swim bladder issue or having something (perhaps one of the rocks from the substrate?) lodged in its gut as that's what the symptoms seem to add up to according to my internet searchings.


Anyone have any other reasons this may have happened? Corey was devastated and has moped around about killing his fish ever since. I do not want a repeat performance, but I do want to have the goldfish.

I know goldfish are messy fish, but I figured that it would be fine since I do water changes on my own tanks at least twice per week because of a messy pleco in one tank. Whenever I feel I need to vacuum the tank with the pleco, I change the water in all the tanks since fresh water is always welcomed by everyone in the tanks.

Should I eliminate the gravel? The sites I have visited recommend either very large gravel (like polished river rocks) or no gravel. Would the biowheel be able to have enough bacterial colonies without the gravel?

If a goldfish won't work out in this set up, what would be other options that would live in a non-heated 5g tank? Since he likes inverts, would a freshwater crab be alright? Would there be problems with keeping a crab with 2 snails? The tank is completely covered, so escape artists are not an issue. I would really like him to be able to keep his goldfish and 2 snails, though.

 

[IceH2O]

Most goldfish need to be in at least a 20 gallon tank add a second goldfish and you'll need at least 30 gallons.

To small a tank will stunt the growth and end its life earlier than it should. Everyone that comes to my house is amazed at the size of my Fantail. Its about 6 inches from head to tail and 3 - 4 inches high not counting fins. We've had it for about 4 yrs now, they can get up to 10 inches in some cases.

A bigger tank is recommended because they are so dirty. With a bigger tank the water parameters are slower to become bad and a weekly PWC will keep it clean. You'll also want to use double the filtration, I use 2 AC 70s on my 55.

edit:

If you end up buying a comet or a koi you may as well bring it back or find someone with a pond as they get over 3 feet long.

Just because your friends goldfish are living doesn't mean that its right. You could live in a closet full of trash but you wouldn't enjoy it.

 

[qpmomma]

Yeah, goldfish are hard to keep. Most ppl don't realize they put out a toxic level of amonia. WHich is why you never want to add goldfish with anyother freshwater fish. Because of the high levels of amonia they need a lot of space. Most get about 4-12 inches in length and can live 20 years if cared for properly. So when ppl say they had a goldfish and it lived 1-2 years, it's still a baby! They are also know to get sick very easlily. They are prone to swim bladder if they gupl too much air when they eat flakes off the top of the water. To avoid that you may want to water down the flakes before feeding them. Thy also get ich easily.

Oh, and keeping snails with goldfish is not a good idea. Goldfish are notorious snail eaters. They also love to eat plants.

I recomend getting a 20 gal, put one goldfish in there and see how it does.

Inverts are cool critters to keep, but they do best in tanks by themselves as they tend to, ummm, eat other fish. They also can get eaten easily by bigger fish as well. I had 3 crabs in my semi-agressive tank b/c I was stupid enough not to do research and listened to the sales clerk who said, "oh, yeah, they'll do fine in a semi agressive tank." With in a day they were all eaten! I felt so bad! Since then, I keep them in thier own tank and they do fine. Depending on what type of crab you get, try to keep ony one male with a few females. The males tend to fight with eachother.

Well, that's my advice anyway. If anyone has anything differnent to add, feel free. One thing I've noticed about aquarium keeping is everyone has different opinions on how to take care of fish.

Good luck!

Christina

 

[DepotFish]

I'd recommend a 10 gallon long for one fancy goldfish. A hex has little surface area for air exchange and also is short on growing and swimming space. Large gravel is ok for a small fish. Melafix isn't really a goldfish thing, well I try not to dose my goldies with much to begin with. Knowing store goldfish tanks I'm sure it probably had its share of internal parasites as well as swim bladder disease. Try to pick out goldies with their fins up and swimming fine. If you see any bad ones in the tank or if any are pooping thin clear poops, don't buy from that tank.

 

[mango]

Goldfish are notorious snail eaters. They also love to eat plants.

I knew about the plant thing, but not the snail thing. Interesting. He said he really wanted the snails so that's probably going to be an issue.

If you end up buying a comet or a koi you may as well bring it back or find someone with a pond as they get over 3 feet long.

Definitely no comets or koi, I already knew that those got 8O HUGE 8O !



Ok, so no goldfish until we get a much larger tank. I feel badly enough because 1 died, don't want to do it again.

If a hex tank doesn't have enough surface area for a goldfish, would it have enough floor space for a crab? Wouldn't the crabs try to eat the snails? Woody and the mystery snail will probably have to go in the community tank with my other large snail by the sound of things.

How do you know male crabs from female crabs? Is it that the colorful ones are male and the not-so-colorful ones are female? If we keep a crab tank, will they likely reproduce and then we'll have to find homes for baby crabs? Can one crab live happily without the company of other crabs or does it depend upon the species as to whether or not they live in groups?

edit: Since the topic ahs moved away from goldfish, I will start a new thread for the crabs.

thankd for the replies!