Green water problems in my turtle tank, can you help?

[Devilishturtles]

Hey guys, I need some help!

I have a 55 gallon tank that is housing two red ear sliders. I know they will get too big, and that I'll have to upgrade, but they live fine in here now. They are each about 5 inches in carcapace diameter, and about 3 and a half years old.

Recently, I upgraded their filter from a Fluval 2-Plus internal filter, to a Fluval 4-Plus internal filter. They've only been in this new environment for a few months.

My problem came right after I added the new filter. The water was green in a matter of days.

The flow is great, the filter is clean, but the water is green.
I change the water, and nothing happens. It goes green again in hours.
I can't blackout the tank, because the turtles need the light to bask.
I refuse to add chemicals. Aside from them not being good for the water, I don't want to subject the turtles to it.

I guess my real question is if I'm overlooking something obvious. Any other ideas for things I can do? If I give enough time for the bacteria to build up in the new filter, do you think it will go away?

What about barley straw? I know it's reccomended to cure green water in ponds, but could I put some in the turtle tank? I'm looking for anything here. I can't even see the turtles in the tank, that is how bad it is.

Thanks alot!

 

[dskidmore]

Barley straw might help, you could put a small amount in one of the canister chambers.

You could also try a natural nutrient control method, like a plant filter. Your turtles are probably likely to eat any plants they can get to, but if you can cycle some water through a seperate chamber and let some vine roots hang in there, it could work.

 

[xIHaKIx]

http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9

click and scroll down, you probably have green algae.

 

[greenmaji]

what are the water peramiters? NO3 and PO4? are there any plants in the water?

 

[Devilishturtles]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Dskidmore, I've never heard of anyhting like that before, the plant filter. The fluval internal filters are foam filters. There is some space between the foam pads where I could put something small, but otherwise the chambers are kinda full. Do you have a link you could share? I'm interested in that, if not for better water quality in general. Thanks.

Greenmaji, I haven't tested the water recently, but I will when I get home tonight.

Does anyone know of a good source for barley straw?

Thanks a lot!

 

[dskidmore]

Plant Filter: I don't know how well it would work anyway to have the plant directly in the filter box. The flow rate might be too high. I am also not sure enough about fluvial internal construction to guarrentee the roots won't foul the motor.

Generally plant filters are done seperately from the regular filter. Either a small pump or some of a canister filter's output is diverted to a resivior where the plants are kept.

My own aquarium is a plant filter of sorts, instead of runing a seperate plant filter, the plants are in the display tank. The plants suck up the ammonia and other nutrients directly out of the water. Every month or so I have to go in and prune out the crazy plant growth. This cold work for you too, if you can find plants the turtles won't eat.

My next plant filter experiment is going to be trying to use a plant filter in a saltwater enviroment to keep the ammonia levels down in my brine shrimp culture.

Barley Straw: Look on ebay for Rachel's babybales. I have ordered from them before for a craft project, and was happy with the value and service.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Barley Straw: Look on ebay for Rachel's babybales. I have ordered from them before for a craft project, and was happy with the value and service.

Finally got a chance to pay attention to the turtles this weekend. I found an auction from Rachael's babybales. It quotes "All natural northern Michigan grown brome, timothy, alfalfa and other grasses mix baled in 4"X6"X10" -/+ 1". Twine tied and individually packaged. Aprox. 1.5 LBs. each."

Is this the right stuff? I don't see barley mentioned in there. I can get timothy hay and alfalfa locally. I didn't know it worked like the barley straw. Any advice on this?

Plant Filter: I don't know how well it would work anyway to have the plant directly in the filter box. The flow rate might be too high. I am also not sure enough about fluvial internal construction to guarrentee the roots won't foul the motor.

I've tried adding some misc plant clippings from my fw tank into an empty filter bag, and placing it in between the foam cartridges of the filter. So far, nothing...
I changed about 90% of the water on Saturday, and this morning, it's green again. I'm completely baffled. I've never had a problem like this before. It just sprang up overnight.

As for the water test, I used the last of my nitrate test...stupidly right after the water change I need to get a new one, as well as a new PO4 kit. Both are out now. Just haven't had time to make it to the LFS lately.

What about a diatom filter? I have a spare Magnum Canister Filter laying around...and I think I recall people doing magical things and making them into a diatom filter?

Thanks so much guys! My turtles want clear water!

 

[BillD]

To start with, there must be a high nutrient load in the tank. Filtration won't change that, only it's form. I have kept red eared sliders and they are dirty creatures. I don't know your regimen, but this is how I avoided the problem. They should only be fed 2 or 3 times a week, and they should never be fed in the tank. I removed them to a wash basin to feed them ( I used trout pellets) and after they had defecated, put them back in the tank. This eliminates most of the mess in the tank. Your filters will thank you and you will have a lot less work. I would clean and sterilize the tank, and start over, then feed them outside the tank. You need to leave them out long enough to allow themselves to clean out. Two 5" turtles can create a huge mess, especially if you feed them too often. Hope this helps.

 

[Devilishturtles]

To start with, there must be a high nutrient load in the tank. Filtration won't change that, only it's form. I have kept red eared sliders and they are dirty creatures. I don't know your regimen, but this is how I avoided the problem. They should only be fed 2 or 3 times a week, and they should never be fed in the tank. I removed them to a wash basin to feed them ( I used trout pellets) and after they had defecated, put them back in the tank. This eliminates most of the mess in the tank. Your filters will thank you and you will have a lot less work. I would clean and sterilize the tank, and start over, then feed them outside the tank. You need to leave them out long enough to allow themselves to clean out. Two 5" turtles can create a huge mess, especially if you feed them too often. Hope this helps.

There is always a high nutrient load in the tank. lol. The turtles are extremely dirty, you are right.

I've often heard of people reccomending feeding the turtles outside of the tank. What confuses me however, is that I have had an extremely underfiltered tank for a long time. At that time...I never once had a green water problem. As soon as I upgraded the filter is when the problem started. I feed the turtles a few reptomin pellets every other day. They also get crickets, mealworms, and fresh greens about twice a week. I don't think I overfeed...I usually make a concientious effort to not do that.

Perhaps this weekend I'll do what you reccomended BillD. Just start over from the beginning. Empty the tank, clean the river rock stones in the tank, and change the filter. I clean the tank once a week, on the weekend. I really cannot do it more often than that with my schedule, but I can always try.

 

[QTOFFER]

I'm going through some greenwater problems myself, Devilishturtles. :? http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=65373&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Like me, you must have knocked some delicate balance out of kilter when you messed with the filter. If it makes you feel any better, your ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are probably all 0 because the green algae is sucking them out of the water as fast as you can do water changes.

I decided to buy a diatom filter to fix the problem once and for all. Zezmo posted some detailed information about the Magnum filter in my thread. Since you already have one, maybe all you need is a micron filter screen and some diatom powder.

Good luck!

 

[dskidmore]

Barley Straw: Look on eBay for Rachel's babybales. I have ordered from them before for a craft project, and was happy with the value and service.

Is this the right stuff? I don't see barley mentioned in there. I can get timothy hay and alfalfa locally. I didn't know it worked like the barley straw. Any advice on this?

They have barley too, click here. One of those bales is way more than you need, for cheaper than the LFS sells it.

Plant Filter: I don't know how well it would work anyway to have the plant directly in the filter box. The flow rate might be too high. I am also not sure enough about fluvial internal construction to guarantee the roots won't foul the motor.

I've tried adding some misc plant clippings from my fw tank into an empty filter bag, and placing it in between the foam cartridges of the filter. So far, nothing...

Do they get any light in there? It won't work unless they're growing. If they rot, it makes the problem worse. This is a completely different action than the barley straw. Plants absorb nutrients from the water as they grow. Barley straw releases algaecide as it rots.

What about a diatom filter? I have a spare Magnum Canister Filter laying around...and I think I recall people doing magical things and making them into a diatom filter?

Some people like them. I haven't tried it.

 

[Devilishturtles]

I'm going through some greenwater problems myself, Devilishturtles. :? http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=65373&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Like me, you must have knocked some delicate balance out of kilter when you messed with the filter. If it makes you feel any better, your ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are probably all 0 because the green algae is sucking them out of the water as fast as you can do water changes.

I decided to buy a diatom filter to fix the problem once and for all. Zezmo posted some detailed information about the Magnum filter in my thread. Since you already have one, maybe all you need is a micron filter screen and some diatom powder.

Good luck!

Thanks a million, QTOFFER( and Zezmo)! I just might try that! The filter has been unused for a while, and I'm not sure how to hook it up exactly, but that is what I have all of you for.

Might give me a chance to polish my other tanks as well.

 

[Devilishturtles]

They have barley too, click here. One of those bales is way more than you need, for cheaper than the LFS sells it.

Wow, thanks alot dskidmore! I think I'm going to try this route before I spend the extra money on parts for a DIY Diatom filter, just to see if it works. If not, atleast I have a back up plan.

Do they get any light in there? It won't work unless they're growing. If they rot, it makes the problem worse. This is a completely different action than the barley straw. Plants absorb nutrients from the water as they grow. Barley straw releases algaecide as it rots.

None at all, lol. I realized what I did after I put it in there, but thought I'd give it a try anyways. I've since taken it out.

Some people like them. I haven't tried it.

Neither have I, but I think that since I have the parts to make a DIY one, I just might give it a try. Barley Straw or Diatom Filter...such a dilemma.

 

[Devilishturtles]

On a seperate note...none of the goodies I put in the DIY diatom filter (if I chose to go that route) will hurt the turtles, will it? The Diatomaceous Earth doesn't ever get through the filter and into the water column in any way, does it?

Things like the phosguard mentioned isn't harmful to them either, is it? I wouldn't imagine it would be, since the medias don't actually release anything back into the water after they are used up.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

To help get rid of green water, you can get Algae Destroyer for planted tanks and fish. Using that in combination with finding the source of the problem and correct it will fix your problem. Sounds like the Phosphates are a bit high.

I used Algae Destroyer to get rid of the green water problem I had, and did more water changes and gravel vacs, and fed less food til I got my parameters in sync. Now I feed less. My problem was over feeding. No more green water. The Algae Destroyer did wonders, but if you don't correct the initial problem, it will be back in no time.

 

[Blucat]

I had not much cash so I just b ought a chemical that balances the water. worked like a charm: tetra easy water balancer

 

[QTOFFER]

From what I've read, the diatom powder is completely inert in water - same composition as sand. You just don't want to breathe the stuff yourself - I'd wear a a sanding mask.

 

[greenmaji]

DE isnt that hard to work with IME it doesnt make dust clouds that envelop you or anything.. lol
a low light plant migh help..
I keep bugging QTOFFER to add some NO3.. hehehe..
hope you both get this green water mess solved..

 

[Devilishturtles]

a low light plant migh help..

Keep the turtles in mind. They'll munch it up before you can blink an eye.

To help get rid of green water, you can get Algae Destroyer for planted tanks and fish. Using that in combination with finding the source of the problem and correct it will fix your problem. Sounds like the Phosphates are a bit high.

Thanks, lonewolfblue. I am not a big proponent on chemicals. I'm trying to treat water for aquatic turtles. I don't want to subject them to it. I believe there is a natural way for everything, and always a way for chemicals to be uninvolved.

I think I'm going to order the micron filter and the DE powder tonight, if I can get the canister filter working. I haven't had it out in a looong time. hehe.

Thanks alot guys.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I'm not much into adding chemicals either, but if it's a bad problem, it will help. I knew in my tank it was getting bad, and found that I was over feeding. But to speed up the process, I added a half-dose, and started feeding just sparingly, til it was gone. Didn't take long. Probably a waste of money, as I probably won't use the rest of the bottle, which is about 99% full, lol.