Hard water / High PH lvl...please help

[rokz]

hi, this is my first post. I'm a newbie to aquariums and need a little help. I have a 30gal tank I just started. I'm using tap water. I recently tested the water and it read that I had a [acronym:58ec1e8e81="Powerhead"]PH[/acronym:58ec1e8e81] of 7.8. I've tried different products such as "Proper [acronym:58ec1e8e81="Powerhead"]PH[/acronym:58ec1e8e81]" and "[acronym:58ec1e8e81="Powerhead"]PH[/acronym:58ec1e8e81] down", but none have worked. I was told that hard water works against such products. So I tested my water and it read that I had "very hard water." I talk to the guy at Petsmart and he said that doing a 50% water change would drop my hardness. This did not work. I need advice on how to soften my water and drop my [acronym:58ec1e8e81="Powerhead"]PH[/acronym:58ec1e8e81] and if one affects the other?

Thank you

[Allivymar]

Hiya rokz and welcome to Aquariumadvice

Coupla questions first. Why do you need to lower your pH levels? Unless you are raising rams or discus, or looking to breed neon/cardinals, most of the fish we get do fine in higher pH levels. Most come from tanks with pH levels higher then one finds in the wild, and usually your [acronym:8296869c40="Local Fish Store"]lfs[/acronym:8296869c40] has pH levels in their tanks similar to what you have at home. You may not need to change it.

Also, dropping water hardness can be dangerous and has to be done very carefully; drop it too low and you can cause whats known as a pH crash, which can really affect the fish. Plus, pH shouldn't be changed more the .2 per day, or it can stress the fish badly.

So lets start off by finding out what you have in the tank and why you need to lower it

[ferret]

A second note, a water change will never drop your hardness, if the water is already hard from the tap. I would think you have a very serious issue if you were put soft water in a tank and it 'magically' became hard. Did you test the tank water or your tap water?

A water change in general is going to cause the tank to swing in the direction of the new water. Some tanks actually end up with harder water after a change.

[davoz]

Ditto on that

[shawmutt]

I use r/o water in my tanks. I buy 10 gallons of r/o water a week from Walmart, in 2 5-gallon jugs, once a week for water changes. I use additives to get the water to the parameters that I need. This allows me to have a black water tank with soft, acidic water--and a african tank with hard, alkaline water. I agree with what most people said, basically if it ain't broke, don't fix it. However, making my water parameters match the natural parameters of the fish is part of my hobby (and it gives me good practice for my future salt water tank )

[saberry]

My water is also very hard out of the tap. I used the same products you did (before adding fish) with little effect. I did about a 30% water change with [acronym:47f8770374="Reverse osmosis"]RO[/acronym:47f8770374] water and that made enough of a change for the pH down to work. After everything was stable, I used the Bio-Spira and then added fish. Now I only use R/O water when doing 20% water changes every two weeks.

If, like AlliV has said, if you already have fish in the tank your course of action will be different.

[Enki]

Or if you are really worried, you can go for fish that like hard water, like african rift lake cichlids.

[ScottS]

Just to echo, what was said, consider using reverse osmosis water. Some of our local grocery stores have it in a dispensing mahine. Here, one store is $.39/[acronym:ad0cc93699="Gallon"]gal[/acronym:ad0cc93699], the other is $.49/[acronym:ad0cc93699="Gallon"]gal[/acronym:ad0cc93699]. I mix it 4:1 with my tap to get my hardness ([acronym:ad0cc93699="General Hardness"]GH[/acronym:ad0cc93699]=26) down to around 6. I'm still slowly working on getting the [acronym:ad0cc93699="Measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions"]ph[/acronym:ad0cc93699] lowered slightly. My mix comes out to about [acronym:ad0cc93699="Measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions"]ph[/acronym:ad0cc93699] 7.6.

The other alternative, as noted, is to find fish which are more adaptable to hard water and high [acronym:ad0cc93699="Measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions"]ph[/acronym:ad0cc93699].

Oh, and avoid that Petsmart guy at all cost from now on.

[Ansel Marrow]

Hey I work at petsmart, ad I give legit info!

Peat moss drops the water pretty well, but its kinda expensive. I avoid chemicals just because I wanna lower my water naturally. [acronym:a9621c2608="Reverse osmosis"]RO[/acronym:a9621c2608] water is great but use it in moderation.

[AJ]

Um...I'm in the same boat as you....after I mix my water. I use 80% [acronym:37ceeab588="Reverse osmosis"]RO[/acronym:37ceeab588] water and 20% tap, which gives me moderately hard water and my pH never changes from 7.8. So.....I gave up trying. Most everything seems to survive in it, so I don't worry about it. Even neons can survive if added correctly. I had many struggles before I realized high pH from hard water is VERY difficult to bring down. And...unnecessary in most cases.