How active are goldfish supposed to be?

[joshuazh]

Got a new goldfish (about two inches right long right now) and he(she?) is constantly swimming around the tank, along the sides and through the middle, and is constantly chewing and biting at the java moss and eating the duckweed in the tank. I gave my goldfish some ghost shrimp and it immediately destroyed all the shrimp and ate them. I don't think I'm underfeeding the goldfish, as it poops a decent amount, and there are plenty of plants around for it to eat.

I introduced the goldfish to the tank about two days ago after cycling the tank for two weeks with plants in and Tetra Safestart. Recently got Seachem Prime and Stability so I'm swapping to those. I'm testing with API freshwater test kit, pH is around 7.8, 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites, ~5ppm nitrates. Water temp should be around 76 degrees. Bought an AmmoniaAlert recently just to double double check and it's been staying at 0ppm.

I also sort of "tested" the water quality of the tank before putting the goldfish in, as I put in the ghost shrimp about a day earlier than the fish to see if they would survive and they seemed perfectly fine. Until the goldfish ate them right after I put the goldfish into the tank, of course.

I don't think it's some kind of disease where the goldfish is trying to rub its sides against the tank, as it's been swimming around the middle of the tank too and constantly attacking the moss. It also did this constantly after water changes early on, and the goldfish has always been like this since the approximately 2.5 weeks ago that I got it. I sit next to the tank at my desk and every time I glance at the tank the goldfish is frantically swimming around and devouring moss.

Is this normal? From what I've read up on goldfish aren't supposed to be this active, are they? It's swimming quite fast and going from one end of the tank to the other in a few seconds repeatedly, and it's been doing this for two days so far.

EDIT: Oh, and it's probably not the water source? I've been using the same tap water for over two weeks now for this goldfish.

Oh, and the goldfish doesn't go to the surface at all, so I don't think it's the oxygen content? It also doesn't seem to be making "gasping" motions with its mouth or gills. And its fins are fully extended and not clamped at all.

Oh, and as far as I can tell, there's no signs of ich or weird discoloring on the fish.

 

[BBradbury]

Hello josh...

Common goldfish are very active swimmers. They're big eaters and heavy waste producing fish. They need lots of large water changes. The smaller the tank, the more water needs to be changed. The minimum sized tank for one Goldfish is 20 gallons. Goldfish aren't tropical fish. So, their tank doesn't require a heater. I wouldn't recommend putting in any tropical fish or anything else that needs warmer water.

Keep up the water changes. I change out most of the water weekly in my Goldfish tanks every week. A small tank of 20 gallons or less needs a couple of large water changes weekly to keep the fish healthy.

B

 

[King Fisher]

I'd start by lowering the temperature where it's supposed to be and see if there's a change in behavior.

 

[joshuazh]

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "lower the temp"? The temperature seems to be fine for the goldfish, according to:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/1x1rm2/can_we_just_stop_the_goldfish_are_coldwater_fish/

Goldfish Myths

 

[Autumnsky]

First off if you have someone having Discus and Goldfish in the same tank even for a "temporary" situation, I would not deem them a good source of information.

You can do more research on GF and see warm water tropical keeping is not ideal for them. Yes people keep GF in warm water areas and many more diseases are of concern. Having them in warm water increases their need for O2.

They are much more active in the warmer water and can cause them stress. They can survive in warmer water... but it isn't better for them.

72F is a good number for them. I would say cool water fish.

Goldfish like to eat plants. They need the fiber for good digestion. They like to eat many times a day and have short digestive tracts and produce waste like crazy.

It is good that you are looking for information to help keep your fish in the best conditions possible.

Also are you using a stick test or liquid test kit?

 

[joshuazh]

Thanks. I'm using the liquid test kit from API and I also have an AmmoniaAlert from SeaChem stuck to the tank. I'll see what I can do about lowering the temps.

 

[okapizebra]

It sounds to me like you have a happy healthy goldfish. Why do you want to change his behavior?

This may be an unpopular opinion, but goldies do perfectly fine at warmer temperatures. Yes, their metabolism is going to go faster and they will want to eat more. However, as long as there is plenty of o2 in the water and regular large water changes are performed, I don't really see the problem.

I live in Florida where it is almost always warm so I don't really have a choice if my goldies are a little on the warmer side and I'm sure many others have this issue as well.

 

[King Fisher]

It sounds to me like you have a happy healthy goldfish. Why do you want to change his behavior?

This may be an unpopular opinion, but goldies do perfectly fine at warmer temperatures. Yes, their metabolism is going to go faster and they will want to eat more. However, as long as there is plenty of o2 in the water and regular large water changes are performed, I don't really see the problem.

I live in Florida where it is almost always warm so I don't really have a choice if my goldies are a little on the warmer side and I'm sure many others have this issue as well.

Out of curiosity, what is your tank temp?

 

[okapizebra]

It is whatever temperature my house is at. So usually around 77, it gets cooler when we get the occasional cold front.

I do large water changes every week and feed 2 times a day. I have never had anything but happy and healthy goldies.

 

[King Fisher]

I was hitting on more of the lower lifespan at higher constant temps. I know this is the issue with goldfish.

I guess I should of asked the OP what type of goldfish he has. I don't think he mentioned it. Fancies are going to be more sensitive to water temps outside of the norm.

Glad to hear it's working for you though.

 

[okapizebra]

Yes, shorter lifespans are definitely a possibility. Goldfish are such a long lived fish though, so by just how much would it shorten it?

IMO, the most important thing is that the fish is happy and healthy. I don't think the OP has a problem with this.

 

[King Fisher]

Hard to say how long it would live because of several factors but I get what you're saying.

Most experts recommend 72-75 degrees for fancy goldfish to keep them happy and healthy. I'm assuming they have tested this statement.

 

[okapizebra]

And who exactly are these experts? Try telling that to the loads of people who have goldfish ponds where their goldfish thrive even though it's 90 degrees 3/4 of the year.

 

[King Fisher]

You know.....the "experts." Lol

Pond goldfish are a lot different than fancy goldfish and can take a wide range of temps. In fact, it can be beneficial for their longevity to go through seasons outside rather than a consistent temp in a tank.

 

[Autumnsky]

Scientific study isn't in the top of the spectrum of hobby fish keeping. It is a narrow field, often more for the industry of game fish or food and some medical. Although the fish and aqua critters keeping hobby is indeed increasing in some areas, the last time I read of a study, it indicated a reduction in participation in the hobby overall.

Hobby kept fish raising for business on the other hand is turning into some really big players. Other areas of the world other than North America I am not as familiar with but obviously with some of the quality product coming from around the world the business side is probably being studied intently.
For the most part hobbyists use their and others experiences for the "best practices".

One big notable about the hobby is that not all things which work for one works for all, AND there so MANY ways to accomplish a same/similar thing.

In this comment please don't take it as defensiveness: a challenge or alternative opinion shared in a respectful way is good, debate is good, information is good. Having the freedom to make up ones own mind and make a decision for ones self is golden.

Probably I am not alone here.... with this topic and those in general with the hobby.

I hear personally from, or "talks" (like fish club) from pond fish keepers maybe not experts but experienced/ first hand shared information. I have kept pond fish as well. So when I share, I try and share from my own experiences and also from those I know and then the next level down would be those who I personally respect or from a source or group who are respected for their knowledge.

Then sometimes there isn't enough information from my personal resources, and looking at others experiences is helpful.

While the interweb has been hugely beneficial also there are unending numbers of sites using completely copied - slightly reworded, or "cut and paste" info.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now, as for the OP's question and issue. It really boils down to how can we help the fish and it's keeper.

Answer: Lots of ways.

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Best possible water parameters. Safe environment. Excellent nutrition. Very good care.

I am glad, at least, so many members here care about helping at all.

So... joshuazh how is it going and how can we help you?

(And for the record, I am in no way an expert, just someone with many varied experiences and very interested in the hobby. And I care. )

 

[King Fisher]

The last article I read a few years ago on goldfish was from an ichthyologist out of the UK. He was giving temp requirements for fancy and common goldfish amongst other things that had to do with them including health and diet.

You're right about a lot of conflicting info regarding requirements of fish. I can see how people get confused with it all.

I'll share an interesting story I have regarding GF. A friend and I decided to build a pond at his place in 2012. We used a backhoe and dug out a 20x10 foot hole we decided to skip on the pond liner because we hit hard clay at 3.5 feet depth. Added a layer of dirt, stone and fine gravel to the bottom. The friend made a homemade water fall out of rock and mortar where he ran tubing from a pump in the pond. He kept comet goldfish the first year. Winter hit, we pulled the pumps before the freeze and we didn't use a heater because we didn't think it would freeze solid 3 feet deep. Well it appeared to have froze either solid or every bit of 2.5 feet. We thought we screwed up and planned on adding pond liner and a heater the next year.

Early Spring came and the pond unthawed. We drained the pond and didn't see any fish......odd. We thought maybe a bird or cat cleaned out the pond before it froze. We started digging out the added substrate to add pond liner and we pulled up one of the comets buried clear down in the bottom dirt layer fully submerged in mud. We thought it was dead. Picked it up and it started moving. It was alive!! Lol. We found all 5 had buried themselves and were alive. I had no clue they did this. Never heard of it. It must of been a survival mechanism to bury themselves before being frozen. How they stayed alive for easily 3 months like that was beyond me. Very tough fish.

 

[joshuazh]

Wow, that's an amazing story. I know when I was a kid our family had goldfish that we kept awful conditions because we simply didn't know better. No water filter, no air pump, outside in weather that would alternate often between hot and cold, water so murky green you couldn't really see the fish, very infrequent water changes, maybe 10-20 gallons at most for the 4-5 common goldfish... And they ended up living for 7+ years, slowly but consistently growing to maybe 6-8 inches long before being eaten by a random raccoon that wandered by.

In any case, I have a common goldfish. It's been a few days and the goldfish is still behaving exactly the same, except I've noticed that it's very calm when I wake up in the mornings until I turn the light on, where it starts zooming around again. I'm beginning to think that this is normal, and if it is I don't plan on changing anything, @okapizebra.

In any case, water parameters seem completely fine, it's been three weeks and there's zero algae growth so I take it as a sign that my java and pelia moss and duckweed are taking up all the nitrogen sources, and my goldfish doesn't seem to be showing any signs of stress or disease. One of the larger ghost shrimp has apparently survived my goldfish's rampage too, and it seems they're peacefully coexisting for now until my goldfish gets brave enough to try to eat it again, I guess.

I'm thinking of trying to raise/breed some ghost shrimp in a what is basically a pico tank (i think it's barely larger than 1L). Seems people have been pretty successful with zero-tech tanks so I might give it a go.

 

[Autumnsky]

One liter would be a challenge - probably shooting yourself in the foot as it is way too small for stable parameters.

In one of my tanks I threw in a few "Ghost" shrimp and they made lots of babies, but it is almost 7G. With a sponge filter.

As a deal alert Petco has dollar per gallon sale and there is no excuse not to grab a decent size tank for the Shrimp project.

 

[King Fisher]

I love the wine glass tank Autumn

 

[Autumnsky]

A quick side note about the "Ghost" Shrimp, what I think is these are a Whisker type shrimp as now they are older and I got a couple pics/ better close ups, they have long arms.

Seemingly very cooperative with the fish, from what I can tell. Have had a mis placed Pygmy Cory living in there with the Guppy and Endler males. I haven't had time to make a new thread about the Ghost / probably not really Ghost shrimp thread yet.

In their younger stage they seem to be just like Ghost shrimp. And since they are clear and more difficult to see well any how, i think it is easy to miss the long arms.
This is a pic of a younger one /seems like regular arms.

Although this is a low grade pic, the legs of the shrimp dangle down to the stem of the plant below it very long - you can sort of pick up the shadow of it.