How to deal with discuses?

[trungnguyen]

Hi all,

I have a 55 gallons with 7 discuses (they are about 2 to 3 inches) with 5 neon tetras, 5 rummy noses, and 4 panda corries. I have some live plants in there too. All discuses, I got them from different stores (I got 4 of them 3 days ago, and 3 of them about last week), but they were all healthy when I bought them. My tank has been set up for 2 months, and I think the cycle is done for awhile. The newest parameter I got today is
-pH: 7.2
-Ammonia: 0 ppm
-Nitrite: 0 ppm
-Nitrate: 0 ppm
-temperature: 84-86 degree

I do the water change every two days, it's about 10% with vacuuming the substrate as well. When I do the water change, I always put tap water into the clean buckets (5 gallons bucket), put some Prime water conditioner in there (about 5 drops of Prime in each bucket since Prime is very concentrated), and let them stay at least one day before I use those water for water change. (some fish store owners said that is the perfect way to get the good tap water for discuses, so I have followed that way). I put one full cap of Prime water conditioner and Black water after I am done with water chance.

When the fishes got home, they swam around the tank and ate normally. However, after couple days (like 2-3 days) they stopped swimming around. They have just stayed at one corner or top corners of the tank and barely eaten even though I dropped food in front of them (I feed them with frozen red worm/bloodworm and some discuses floaks. They both ate all at the beginning) . Some of them are still colorful now, but their fins are not straight up. They seem to get skinnier and less color day by day. Other fishes are doing very well, except the discuses. I have not seen any lines or cracks on their bodies yet, so I think there would be no diseases in my tank.
I talked to my friends about this, and some of them said that the discuses need some time to acclimate due to new environment. I don't know it is true or not, but I have been worried about them. I have done some researches about discuses, and some articles stated that when I do the water chance, I should put some aquarium salt and raise the temperature up to 88, so discuses would feel better with their immune system and back to eating, especially the juvenile ones. However, so far nothing has changed much in them.

Is anyone experiencing about discuses, please give me a hand. I don't want to see my discuses getting weaker and die.

I really appreciate your time and help. Thank you so much.

Trung.

 

[Zimmanski]

Well first off I just want to point out that your corys prefer colder waters than your discus but that's not a top priority at the moment I guess. Discus can be very finicky and fragile fish and they do need time to acclimate to a tank but I would think since you only have a few tetras in with them that they would have acclimated already. Most people who keep discus don't use tap water at all, using RO or RODI water instead. Your water parameters concern me a little with zeros across the board, there should be some sort of nitrate produced by the BB, how are you testing the water and do you have live plants?

 

[molliwopp]

2 month old tank and your adding discus? Sounds like trouble. I put it to you that your tank isnt cycled. Change change change water, if you insist on standing the water over night, buy more buckets. I just add the dechlor to he bucket and then slowly use a jug to add the water before syphoning out the water from the tank. Match the temperature to tank temp. The 10% your changing isnt enough and your going to lose your discus if you dont act NOW.

Zim is right, you have alot of fish in the tank and your test results just dont reflect.

 

[CrashCourse]

I don't know anything about discus so I can't comment about that, but about the cycle... My tanks have been cycled for a while, and I've never seen above 5ppm nitrates (with 30-50% wc on Saturdays), even before I had more than 1 or 2 live plants. I would think with that many fish and only 10% water changes, you'd see much higher ammonia and nitrite if it wasn't cycled.

 

[molliwopp]

I don't know anything about discus so I can't comment about that, but about the cycle... My tanks have been cycled for a while, and I've never seen above 5ppm nitrates (with 30-50% wc on Saturdays), even before I had more than 1 or 2 live plants. I would think with that many fish and only 10% water changes, you'd see much higher ammonia and nitrite if it wasn't cycled.

And he would see much higher nitrate readings if it was...
OP how many live plants do you have?

Cycled to what extent? To be able to handle afew schools of tetra or cycled to handle heavy discus bioloads?
OP, what filter(s) are you using?

I know what youre saying crash course but the test results just dont seem to add up and we have sick discus, which is why im making my own conclusions and assumptions.

 

[Mlani]

Waiting to hear the OP's responses to the above mentioned questions before I respond.
(Don't want to lose the thread)

 

[trungnguyen]

Thank you everyone for your responses.

I use the canister filter, Fluval 306.

When I just set the tank up and cycled it, I put some neon tetras in there. It was around 12 of them, after for a while until now. The number of them is 8, and they are doing good now. My tank has a lot of live plants.

I did more 40% of water change yesterday, I added aquarium salt, and rose the temperature up to 88. The reason I did that because I noticed that my discuses have a disease. I believed that Hole in the Head disease. Most 7 of them have that now, and they are dying. This morning, 2 of them were gone already.

I have been so sad and stress since I saw them suffering like that. I keep in my mind that I would lose all the discuses. I don't know what's going on. Other fishes are doing good and normal, except discuses. Is it because one has disease and it spreads out to other discuses? I don't know any kind of medication as well, and I don't want to waste my money on that. Not because I don't care for them, but I am kinda lost now, and don't know what to do....

What if bad things happened, and all my discuses died. What should I do to clean the tank? Because they have disease, and I don't know after they are gone, are there in bacterias left in there or not.

Where could I find the most healthiest and strongest discuses later? Some of people recommend me that I should not get any discuses from fish stores because there is no clue about where they get their discuses....

When I was young and in Vietnam, I had a lot of discuses and they bred too. However, here can be a different story since many things are different such as water condition, temperature....

 

[Angel_fish]

It could be acclimation, it could be they are just scared being in a new place... Your water temp is a little high 79 is ideal. 84 your making the poor things sweat. Other then that just give them time

 

[molliwopp]

No. 84 is an acceptable temperature for discus.. 79 is too cold. Angelfish, Youre giving out the wrong information and not just in this thread.Please only post on subjects you actually have knowledge in.

 

[Mlani]

I'm sorry to hear you've lost a couple already. It's good that you've figured out what it is (hole in the head) I'm confused from your post though, do you want to invest money and effort into saving these discus? Or are you merely confused as to what direction you should take?

 

[trungnguyen]

Thanks for your words. Your post actually made me laugh. What I meant is right now I just keep in mind that I would lose all the discuses (hope that would help me feel better), so I don't be stressing out about them. Of course I am still trying all my best on what I can do for them. I really like them, because I went to every single fish store to look for them. I honestly don't know what to do to deal with them now. I still do water change and add salt in there. I am still confused about them temperature now. What temp. should I set for the tank now?

Plus, I am a full time student and have 2 part time jobs, so I am busy all the time. However, I schedule my work, and I still have time for them everyday, so I want to use those time effectively.

If anyone knows any ideas to help me out, that would be great.

Thanks for your responses.

 

[Mlani]

Ah ok .. I understand better now. Tight budget and trying not to feel for the fish if you lose them. Got it! I haven't any experience with hole in the head. My discus has pulled through ich and culiminarus (not sure of the spelling) what I did was stay on top of the water changes are you using r/o and treating the water? I also dosed his food with metro+ and soaked it in garlic (to get him to eat it) The metro isn't very expensive (trust me I'm on a tight budget myself) I'll post pics of both the products. So you know what to look for. It does have some serious warnings about using the product (for humans, fish are safe) so make sure to read those before using it. I keep my tank at a steady 86 discus like warmer waters. Also they are sensitive fish so when you change anything in their tank make sure to do it VERY slowly. Do you have a test kit? If so, please tell me what your readings are. Keep the lights off in the tank they're in to help remove additional stress on them and provide plenty of hiding spots. Usually I would say to remove them from the tank but you said it's numerous fish showing signs so you may be better off treating the entire tank.

 

[Mlani]

Sorry forgot the pics

 

[trungnguyen]

Thanks Mlani for your posts. I keep doing the water change everyday from now on. I just use tap water, like I mentioned at the beginning. I put tap water into the buckets, add Primie water conditioner in there, let them settle down at least one day, and use that water for water change.

What temperature should I set for the tank now? 86?

About the food, what should I feed them now? I have frozen worm, frozen beef heart, and some dry food for discus. They don't eat now, what if I put the food in and they are not eating?

Your post made me remember one thing. Before I put the new discuses in, I restructured my tank, because I want to have more space in front of the tank for fishes to swim around. I think that is one of the main reason to stress them out.

I'll will try your way to treat them, and hope everything would be okay in the next couple day. Would the disease come back to my discuses? Any way to prevent them?

Thanks.

 

[trungnguyen]

Here some photos about my water test, I usually bring the water to the fish store for testing every two week. However, I'm thinking to get one for myself.

Those photos are about my tank, and my discuses before they got sick.

 

[Mlani]

Okay I think there are a few things going on here that led up to the position you are in now with your discus. I may have something wrong (if so please correct me) The tank in question is a fairly new tank right? So from looking at your test results I can see you have zeros across the bar. Usually in an established tank (which is upmost important for adding discus) you will see some nitrates. Yes it's not good to have nitrates present in high levels however its darn near impossible not to have any at all in an established tank. Hence why water changes are so important. I do see you have plants which is awesome for helping with that. I myself don't have any experience with plants (so if someone else chimes in stating different please do) I'm pretty sure even with planted tanks you will still see a residual amount of nitrates. This being said I think your tank has not yet completed (or begun) the cycling stage when you added the discus. Also the temperature you had it set to is much too cold for them. So that combined with being stressed from transport and then acclimation...how did you acclimate them? Did you trickle acclimate them? They look like they were healthy specimens in the beginning. Oh one more question when you are feeding, you said you use frozen foods. Do you thaw them in a cup of tank water first? Or just plop it in the tank? One thing I have learned about discus is they really don't like any fluctuations in their surroundings. They have even been known to "pout" or grow dark in colour if they are slightly startled. (Loud noise,fast fish around them) If they aren't eating its going to be more complicated to get the meds in them. I'm not sure you want to try and "syringe" the meds into them. I would if it was me in your position get my temp up to a stable 86 buy the metro and garlic and try hand feeding them. I'd keep the lights off in the tank and watch my other fish closely. I'm not experienced with hole in the head but my understanding is its an internal parasite that causes it? (Hopefully someone with more experience will jump in here) I do know the meds I recommended will treat that as well. I'd keep on the water changes and try to match the temp perfectly (if you have to use a thermometer to make sure) I would get a master API (test kit) and check it regularly keeping track with a "journal" There's a tonne of things I would do. Too many to list I'm sure. But I think that's the jyst of it. Oh and I would pray that they pull through. I haven't heard of too many fish that survive hole in the head. (Sorry to say) Who knows though I've been surprised in the past by some fish.

 

[trungnguyen]

Thanks for your answers. After seeing your post this evening, I went to the fish store and asked about that, and the owner asked me why I need to buy those medications. I had a talk with him everything and he advised me something else. He said because one of my discuses had the disease first, and it spread to others. The owner said because I use the tap water for my tank, so the pH is too high for discuses. Discus can handle the high pH, high pH is one of the reason to cause them disease. He recommended me to use RO water, or I have to do something to softer the water since tap water is the hard water. When I got home, I tested the water right away, everything was good, except the pH too **** high, it was 8.4. Therefore, I put the things (I don't know it is called) that the owner recommended to me to softer my water. I bought the medications as well too. How do I use the Metro Plus perfectly? My tank is 55 gallons, so I put 4 full caps of the Metro Plus into the tank. I still let the filter running, but I took the carbon out since carbon will take the medication away, and it will be not good for discus in the long term in general.

Before when I fed my fishes, I just pop one frozen blood worm to the tank, and that was all. Later on, I realized that was not good. So I thaw one cube into the cup, get some tank water in there too, and wait for the cube melted and put everything in the tank. I can tell my fishes love this way more. I fed my discuses today as well. Surprisedly that they ate. I took one cube of worm into the cup, put some garlic guard in there, and mixed everything together, and fed them. They came up and ate even though they have been sick and not eaten at all the all time. I can tell that could be one of the good sign then. I checked every single them today, and I found out that 2 of them haven't had the disease yet. They are still colorful and swim around normally. But I still treat the whole tank with medications as well.

Yeah, my tank is new. It has been around 2 months. When I tested the water, everything came out as good result. I did not know that the age of tank is one of the requirements for discus. How long should I put the discus into the tank? When I got discuses home, I just put the bags into the tank, let it matching the temperature with the water in the tank about 30-45 mins., and then I used the net to released them into the tank. They swam and ate like nothing going on. Base on that, I can tell that my tank is good for them. However, I didn't notice much about pH, hard water, and the disease. I hope they would go through this, the other two would not get any inflection.

 

[Mlani]

I'm glad you went back to the pet store and found someone to help you as well. How are the discus doing? Still eating? With the meds I mentioned I would sprinkle them ( as if you were salting your food ) right on the bloodworms/beef heart in the cup you use and soak it all in the garlic then after a few minutes (allowing it to absorb in to the food) pour it in the tank. I hope while you were at the pet store you had the guy show you how to use the test kit? It will become your best friend. As for how you introduced the discus to your tank some people will say that's fine I would disagree. I've found the best way to introduce sensitive fish (which discus are) is the trickle (drip) method. I quarantine all new fish before they even see my tanks. (I've lost entire populations before. Learned that lesson the hard way) I suggest before you add any more fish you research the method "drip acclimation" it is in my mind the BEST way. Keep us updated as to how your fish are doing. Any questions there are plenty of knowledgable people on this forum. Most of us started out learning from our mistakes too.