How to take care of my tank/water? What's my next step?

[corrado33]

Ok, so I'm at a loss here about what to do. I'm just going to lay everything out.

I have a 12 gallon tank (I know weird right?)

First off, here is the most recent pic of my tank.

Stocking:

• 3 Fancy Guppies
• 3 Zebra Danios
• 4 Bloodfins

I know those fish need a slightly bigger tank cause they like to swim, that's not the question here, so let's not focus on it. (Plus I have a 20 gallon and 55 in the basement that I'll eventually get around to setting up)

Plants:

• Some Anacharis (or Egreia Densa, I know there's a whole debate there)
• A couple java ferns
• And... crud I just bought it... I even researched it... uh.. it's in the back left corner, it's leaves spiral and they look like giant pieces of grass

Lighting:

• One 14 W fluorescent Life Glo bulb
• Two 13 W CFL Daytime Bulbs (6700 K Temp)

Tank Decor:

• Normal white Aquarium Gravel you'd find at any pet store, not gravel made for a marine tank
• One red rock, I have no idea what it is...
• Some Mopani Driftwood

Filtration:

• One AquaClear 20

My Habits:

• 40% weekly water changes with untreated RO/DI water(that's now much it takes me to clean the tank, and the driftwood tannins annoy me)
• I vacuum the gravel, but I've been doing that less lately since I've gotten plants
• Every once in a while I'll rinse out some of the media in the filter?
• I feed twice a day, only enough that the fish can eat in a few mins
• Lights come on at...7:30 and go off at 7:30
• Thermostat is at 77 I believe, but it get's to about 80 during the day.

My most recent readings(as of Tuesday):

• Ammonia: 0
• Nitrite: 0
• Nitrate: 5
• pH: Well, I got 8.1 from an electronic pH tester, but off the charts (high) for the API kit, I took it to the LFS and they failed miserably at giving me a pH reading, the guy had no idea what he was doing)

I wish I could test for phosphate and all the other stuff I'd love to know, but I can't. Are those tests in the API saltwater kit? Does the LFS test for those?

My Problems:
This all started when I began getting BGA. (Blue green algae, cyanobacteria). Yes, I know it doesn't LOOK like I have a lot of BGA, but look closer, see that green in the back, that's BGA, see the green on the rock, that's BGA. It's also on the left and right panes of glass, and all through the gravel and on my plants. I thought it was due to the fact that I have well water. Basically the water is put through a sediment filter, then through a Na water softener. So all of the nutrients that were in the water from outside, were going into my tank, as well as a ton of Na, which isn't good for the fish (or plants I believe). So, because of the uncertainty in my water, and the Na being put into the tank, I decided to buy a RO/DI unit. That didn't solve my problems.

Since I've been using the RO/DI water, the BGA hasn't gone away (although I vacuum it out twice a week), and now my pH is going CRAZY. (On a side note, the tank does not get hit with sun) I believe it's because there is no established buffer in my aquarium. There is also no... uh, I'm not sure how to say this, I think RO/DI water is very HARD? Nope I'm wrong. RO/DI is neither hard nor soft. Anyway, there's no hardness in my tank. I think that is causing my pH swings (again, not good for fish or plants).

Since I've had the tank set up, (about 3/4 of a year ago), my pH has been around 8. That's because the tap water I was using then had a pH of around 8. (I was at school.) When I brought the tank home, I thought the pH would slowly change (since I kept most of the water), since the pH out of MY tap is around 7.5. However, the pH in my tank (was) still around 8 before I started using RO/DI. I didn't mind the very stable pH, however I would have preferred it to have been closer to 7 (although I would never use products to reduce the pH). Now that I've been using RO/DI, I would CERTAINLY expect the pH to come down to close to 7. However, it has not. There HAS to be something in the tank that's causing my pH to be high. Since the red rock is the only unknown in my tank, I took it out today. I'm going to replace it with some shale. I know that a stable pH is better than a perfect one, and I'm fine with that, I just want to know what was causing my pH to be stable at 8, instead of 7.

Anyway, that's my story. Here's where I want the tank to go.

Ultimately, I would love to have a low maintenance/tech, planted aquarium. (Maintenance doesn't bother me, I just love planted aquariums). I would love to have the correct fish to plants ratio so that the plants use what the fish produce and I don't have to vacuum gravel. (Again, I'm not being lazy, I don't mind vacuuming gravel at all, but with plants, you're not supposed to vacuum hard around them anyway.) I don't want one of those "jungle" tanks that all you see is green, but I do love the contrast that plants bring. I also want a very STABLE tank. I don't want to have to worry about ANYTHING. If that means I have to add a little buffer chemical here and there, so be it. (I am a chemist after all.) Oh, and a very important thought... I don't want any nutrient imbalances so that I have to worry about algae. High phosphates cause this, low nitrates cause this... yada yada yada. I don't want to deal with it. Algae annoys me (obviously), so with a properly balanced tank, I wouldn't have to worry about it. I have a feeling my BGA is due to an imbalance somewhere.

Anyway, I'm done. I've written a book. It's called my tank and me, and I would like you to be the critics. Let me know how you guys think I could solve my problems/make my tank better/all that jazz. In case you didn't notice, I'm REALLY worried about the pH, I just want to get it stable again.

 

[dkpate]

12 hours is a long time for the tank lights to be on.
Why don't you get some malaysian trumpet snails to help clean up the waste?

 

[corrado33]

12 hours is a long time for the tank lights to be on.
Why don't you get some malaysian trumpet snails to help clean up the waste?

12 hours was always fine before (at school), and now that I have plants I didn't see any reason to change it. Plus I like to see the fish when I wake up and when I come home. I know that lots of light generally promotes algae, but if the water has the right amounts of nutrients, and those nutrients are being used by the plants, algae is highly unlikely regardless of lighting. (Or at least that what I keep seeing online). Admittedly I could cut back on the lighting.

How big do those snails get? Do I really have a waste problem? I thought the plants ate all of the fish waste (figuratively of course).

 

[dkpate]

I never leave my lights on for more than 8 hours, and I still get algae.

My MTS take care of all the extra food, algae and fish poo. They get about 1.5-2 inches. They are livebearers though, and your tank, if it has alot of waste, can easily become overwhelmed. You don't really see the snails during the day, except after feeding, since they hide in the substrate. I have assassin snails as well that keep the population in check, and I move them from tank to tank as I need them.

Also, dw will alter pH, but only by like .1 or so. It could have been the rock. Why don't you try dripping some vinegar on it and see what happens? I stick with shale, slate and granite in my tanks.

 

[logansmomma1228]

Plants:

• Some Anacharis (or Egreia Densa, I know there's a whole debate there)
• A couple java ferns
• And... crud I just bought it... I even researched it... uh.. it's in the back left corner, it's leaves spiral and they look like giant pieces of grass

Where did you get these? Are you sure they are aquatic? How long have you had them for? Not sure if this will help any but I am sure going to try and help

• One red rock, I have no idea what it is...-
• Some Mopani Driftwood

Where did you get that rock? I have been doing some research on rocks for the aquarium, here is a link that might be able to help with that- Adding Rocks and Wood to Your Freshwater Aquarium - Rate My Fish Tank . It's not the best one that I had but I can't find the other one. I do know there is certain rocks that raise your pH and some that can help your tank stay stable.

As far as the wood, again it depends on if it is indeed true driftwood. Not questioning you in any way, but sometimes it happens. I know dw should help keep your pH down.

• Every once in a while I'll rinse out some of the media in the filter?

I think you already know this but just to make sure- do you rinse it out in the old tank water? And I am not sure of the RO/DI and well water mix, that might be messing with something.

I wish I could test for phosphate and all the other stuff I'd love to know, but I can't. Are those tests in the API saltwater kit? Does the LFS test for those?

There has got to be test kits somewhere for that type of stuff, seeing as planted tanks need to know their levels. I did find lots of phosphate tests but I didn't search for kH or gH. Phosphate Multi Test Kit 75 Tests by Seachem - AquaCave

This all started when I began getting BGA. (Blue green algae, cyanobacteria). Yes, I know it doesn't LOOK like I have a lot of BGA, but look closer, see that green in the back, that's BGA, see the green on the rock, that's BGA. It's also on the left and right panes of glass, and all through the gravel and on my plants. I thought it was due to the fact that I have well water. Basically the water is put through a sediment filter, then through a Na water softener. So all of the nutrients that were in the water from outside, were going into my tank, as well as a ton of Na, which isn't good for the fish (or plants I believe). So, because of the uncertainty in my water, and the Na being put into the tank, I decided to buy a RO/DI unit. That didn't solve my problems.

Since I've been using the RO/DI water, the BGA hasn't gone away (although I vacuum it out twice a week), and now my pH is going CRAZY. (On a side note, the tank does not get hit with sun) I believe it's because there is no established buffer in my aquarium. There is also no... uh, I'm not sure how to say this, I think RO/DI water is very HARD? Nope I'm wrong. RO/DI is neither hard nor soft. Anyway, there's no hardness in my tank. I think that is causing my pH swings (again, not good for fish or plants).

I have heard that this is some bad stuff and I am sure you have tried a lot to fight it but I really can't help you on that besides the blacking out the tank thing. I think if you turn the temp down (or is it up? someone please jump in here) then it will die as well. I am not too sure though so you might want to double check on that.


As far as the pH goes the main things I know of are adding rocks to raise and driftwood to lower, because supposedly the pH chemicals don't work too well. However I used pH down in my 10 and it has stayed that way for quite some while.

You could maybe adjust the pH to the new water when doing PWC's with the chemicals? Like adjusting the rest of the params? Just a thought. Good luck! Following this.

 

[corrado33]

Also, dw will alter pH, but only by like .1 or so. It could have been the rock. Why don't you try dripping some vinegar on it and see what happens? I stick with shale, slate and granite in my tanks.

Well I've actually been meaning to change it for a while. I never really liked the red rock. I like more natural looking rocks. I'm not going to put new rocks in until I get the situation under control, but I am going to keep the red one out.

Where did you get these? Are you sure they are aquatic? How long have you had them for?

Got them at the LFS mom and pop place. They're aquatic I promise.

Where did you get that rock?

Well, there's a story that goes with that. When I was younger my brother kept tanks. He has long since moved out, but left his old aquarium stuff, this was one of his rocks. I assumed it was fine. It's honestly the only thing I've never checked in my tank.

As far as the wood, again it depends on if it is indeed true driftwood

Bought it off of ebay from someone who had a water reservoir near their house. It showed up wet (and not rotting), so unless the person took the time to soak it for months to make it sink, I'm guessing it was actually driftwood. And it looks just like it. If it looks like it, smells like it, sinks like it, then it must be it.

Do you rinse it out in the old tank water?

Of course.

Phosphate Multi Test Kit 75 Tests by Seachem - AquaCave

Anybody ever use these? What else do I need to test for?

I have heard that this is some bad stuff and I am sure you have tried a lot to fight it but I really can't help you on that besides the blacking out the tank thing. I think if you turn the temp down (or is it up? someone please jump in here) then it will die as well. I am not too sure though so you might want to double check on that.

Yes, it's bad stuff. I think I've read that algae thrive above 80? Maybe it was 76? I'll have to look it up again. So I think I'd turn the temp down, but I'm not that desperate yet. It's an annoyance, not a tank threatener.

You could maybe adjust the pH to the new water when doing PWC's with the chemicals?

RO/DI water SHOULD already be at a pH of 7, which is perfect. What I need is a buffer, not an adjuster. (Well a buffer is just a mix of two adjusters eh? )

 

[dkpate]

You could still try the vinegar test to see if that is what was causing the problem.

Also, with my water, I use Kordon Rid Metals because of my snails. We have REALLY hard water here, and it removes alot of them.

 

[corrado33]

You could still try the vinegar test to see if that is what was causing the problem.

Also, with my water, I use Kordon Rid Metals because of my snails. We have REALLY hard water here, and it removes alot of them.

I'll do it tomorrow.

And RO/DI would remove any metals anyway, so no worry about that.

EDIT: Also, I don't think the red rock would be the problem. If it was causing a change in the pH, when I switched to RO/DI, whatever chemical that the rock released to change the pH would start buffering the system to a certain pH, which it has not done.

 

[BigJim]

RO/DI water is essentially pure water. pH should be 7.0, but it's really susceptible to pH swings due to lack of dissolved minerals. SW guys add buffers when they add salt. FW people should add a buffer of some kind to prevent pH swings. Check your LFS for buffer additives.

 

[corrado33]

Alrighty, well, I bought some buffer solution. I bought the seachem acid and alkaline buffer. Right now I'm buffering the tank to around 8, as that is what my tank has always been, then I'll slowly bring it down to seven, just because that's where I want it (and where RO/DI should be). I also bought some equilibrium although many people said I could just use tap water. I'll get my tap tested one day and actually find out what's in it, only then will is put it straight into my tank. I did another 45% water change and added a bucket full of enough buffer for the tank. The pH before I added it was around 8.5, so it won't be too much of a shock. This is honestly all I want to do with the tank. I don't want to add ferts if I don't have to. Again, if anybody has any comments feel free to let me know.

EDIT: On a side note, I found an AWESOME aquarium store today. It's called Oddball Pets and Aquariums, and it is ALL fish! Nothing else. It's mostly freshwater planted too. You should have seen some of their tanks. Most LFSs pretty much just shove a bunch of plants in a tank to be sold and call it a day. EVERY one of the tanks in this place was aquascaped beautifully. I loved it. Also, it wasn't like a normal LFS where all of the tanks are "in wall". Most of these tanks were simply on shelves in rows in the place. There was about 5 rows of tanks (on both sides). They had everything there. They're also a Seachem three star dealer (they go away to learn about the Seachem Products). All of their fish look beautiful, and they were really knowledgeable about what they were selling. I have a pic of one tank I was in love with there. It was a mini 2.5 gallon, but it had little "micro" fish she told me they were. They were mini rasporas or somethin like that. They were full grown at about .5 to .75 of an inch. They also had a couple little shrimp in there, and again, it was aquascaped beautifully, had plants and everything. She said it didn't even have a filter, they just did PWC twice a week. I'll upload a pic in a few. Of course, I bought fish, I know my tank's a mess right now, but I'm drip acclimating them really slowly, so I think they'll be fine. They had 4 different types of guppies, so I bought two (so mine will total 5), and I bought two zebra danios (so mine will total 5). AND I FOUND AN ANUBIUS something something NANA!!! It's the first time I've ever seen one, but I've always wanted one, so I bought it.

 

[dkpate]

Cool, can't wait for pics!

 

[jsoong]

Alrighty, well, I bought some buffer solution. I bought the seachem acid and alkaline buffer. Right now I'm buffering the tank to around 8, as that is what my tank has always been, then I'll slowly bring it down to seven, just because that's where I want it (and where RO/DI should be).

ER, I would have to caution you on mixing buffers!!!

A buffer, by its nature will want to keep the water at a certain pH. Adding a second buffer in small amounts will not change the 1st buffer's equilibrium pH. <That is what the buffer is for, keep pH stable even though other things are trying to change the pH.> Once you add enough of the 2nd buffer, however, you get to the point where it overwhelms the 1st buffer, and the pH will all of a sudden shifts to the equilibrium pH of the 2nd buffer.

So by buffering to 8, and then adding the acid buffer, you will not achieve a slow drop of pH that you are looking for. Instead, you will have the pH at 8, maybe go down a bit with a bit of the acid buffer, then bounced back to 8 ... then all of a sudden, it will drop to 6 when enough acid buffer had accumulated to overwhelm the base buffer. <This is the classic yo-yo-ing pH you see when people add pH down to hard water ..... except that you are creating the hard water with the basic buffer.>

If you are going to aim for pH of 7, I think you are much better off using a neutral buffer to start. <SeaChem makes one.> By eliminating whatever in the tank that is causing the pH to go to 8, the pH should start to come down when you do pwc's with the RO water. <Test some tank water in a cup to find out how much RO you can mix with your tank water to achieve a slow 0.2 unit pH drop.> Once you get the pH down to 7.5'ish, I would do pwc with neutral buffered water, and change it all over to neutral buffered water over several days. <Again you might want to experiment with the water in a cup to find out how it will react with all the doctoring.>

Also, I think you need to eliminate the source of the original buffer that is pushing your pH up in the tank. If not, you are again looking at a mixed buffer situation. It is tricky to get stable pH with mix buffers, so better to stick with just one. <OTOH, the simplest at this point is to stay at pH of 8 ... just use the base buffer & leave things be ....>

 

[corrado33]

Thanks jsoong. However, these buffers are made to be mixed. It even has a mixing chart on the back. If you want pH 8, you do a 4 to 1 mix. I'm pretty sure (chemistry kicking in here), that one is just the conjugate of the other (in chemical terms). I believe the definition of a buffer is a weak acid and it's conjugate base mixed. I'm guessing that the "alkaline buffer" is the conjugate base, which naturally buffers to 7.8, and the "acid buffer" is the weak acid. Depending on the proportions you mix, you'll get your desired pH. (You'll reach a certain point on the equilibrium curve).

So really, when you mix them, you're essencially mixing the same compound, one just has a hydrogen attached to it.

You are correct that if you try to do (for example) a bicarbonate buffer, and a...oh... I dunno... a phosphate buffer at the same time, you'd get crazy results. You gotta have one buffer that is stronger than the others so it takes over.

EDIT: I even called seachem to make sure I was adding everything right. They're really nice people.

 

[jsoong]

OK. I stand corrected! I was under the impression that the base buffer is bicarbonates, and the acid buffer is phosphates.

If they are designed to be mixable, then SeaChem must have selected the appropriate compounds that can give a smooth pKa curve.

 

[mgamer20o0]

havent had the time to really sit down and read whats going on until tonight.

Lighting:

• One 14 W fluorescent Life Glo bulb
• Two 13 W CFL Daytime Bulbs (6700 K Temp)

• Lights come on at...7:30 and go off at 7:30

12 hours was always fine before

was it always the same amount of light? always sthose 3 bulbs you are using? since you have a new water supply it could have been extra nutrients in the water.

another thing i see is you are posting about your ph but have you tested your kh and gh? those are important in figuring whats going on with your tank.

any way you can by pass the salt filter before hand?