I need a cleaning crew.

[pairustwo]

Hi everyone.
I have a twenty gallon tank. I set it up about five weeks ago with six neon tetras and four live plants. I have flourite for a substrate. I have been doing a 50% water change each week and have been adding two capfuls of 'Cycle' after each water change. I am using municipal tap water to refill the tank and I am adding two teaspoons of 'Neutral Regulator' each time I add water.

Things have been going well and two weeks ago the fish store tested my water said I had no detectable waste and they would now sell me some fish other than tetras. My daughter wanted guppies (two). That went well and a week later my wife wanted African Dwarf Frogs (two). That went well and everyone is happy.

For awhile now I've had some brown stringy alga growing on some of the leaves of the plants. I also found a patch of brownish algae growing on some of the substrate. And today I found greenish algae growing on the glass. That is the last straw.

I should mention that the fish store encouraged me to hold off on plecos and other cleaning fish until the tank was really established as they are very sensitive.

So, my question is what sort of fish would help me clean my tank, survive my harsh environment and finally, get along with the fish and frogs?

I've read hear that Plecos should not be sold to newbies such as myself. I don't know exactly why. I would like to get one because I like them.

So let the advice roll.

 

[SparKy697]

The usual advice here goes something like this:

Get yourself a test kit so that you can keep an eye on water conditions in the tank. Read the article on the nitrogen cycle so that you can better understand the test results.

Your tank is probably going through a bit of a cycle still and adding more fish will only add to it's length. Once you have seen your ammonia and nitrite levels get down to zero you can probably add a couple "cleaner fish" to the tank.

There are some good articles here that can help you identify the algae you have. The brown spots may just be diatoms. As I understand these little guys always show up in a new tank. There are fish like catfish otos that love eating that stuff. The green algae might be a function of light and nutrients in the tank. This is where the test kit comes in handy, also it will help if you can post more specifics on your tank like amount of light, how long it is on a day, where is your tank located in relation to a window/natural light....

Plecos tend to get kind of big for a 20 gallon tank but there are other fish that can help keep the tank clean. Tank conditions are probably your biggest tool for dealing with algae.

 

[supermazz9]

I'd like to start this by welcoming you, and I hope you're enjoying yourself so far!

Now...

Head on up to the article section, up above. Familiarize yourself with the FW article on the Nitrogen Cycle (I guess it's too late to read the Fishless Cycle article, but a little knowedge never hurt anyone...no, wait, I guess that's why people get tortured for information. huh. well, I don't think any of this knowledge will hurt you). Feel free to read through what's there, as you might find some stuff you can use there.

As soon as you're done with that bottle of "Cycle" go and buy something like Prime, or (i like) Hikari Ultimate. You won't hear anything good about Cycle here.

Why are you putting in Neutral Regulator? Unless you have a reason (which you very well may, I don't know) fish prefer a stable pH over a fluctuating one, and will likely thrive no matter what your pH is, with some exceptions.

Your plants would probably like a fertizer, and this will help them fight off the algae.

As for algae eaters...I don't see why you shouldn't get a pleco, but research the one you are getting. The most common species can grow huge. A bristlenose (sweet, and likely only 4-5 inches) might work for you. I don't know why else you wouldn't want to get one. Keep in mind that plecos can produce a lot of waste.

oh oh....before I forget, get a test kit. do this first, don't just rely on the LFS to test your water for you. Your checking is the only real way for you to know what your fish's living environment is like. Most folks here will reccomend you to the Aquarium Pharmasuticles (crap, my spelling sucks). Just bite the bullet and get the full kit, with ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, gh, ph, etc. What you don't know CAN hurt your fish.

Also for algae, try snails? I don't know a lot about them (I've got a thread going right now cause I'm thinking of getting a couple), but if you ask around someone might be more helpful on that front. All I know is some snails look really cool, and they can be quite entertaining!

Good luck, and post some pics!

 

[joannde]

Algae tends to form when the plants can't efficiently use the nutrients in the water - one of those nutrients is CO2 (carbon dioxide). The amt of CO2 that can be held in water is a function of pH and hardness of the water (can't remember if its GH or KH, but for my point its sort of irrelevant). Fluctuating CO2 can cause algae. I'd say stop using the pH neutralizer (unless your pH is below 6 or above 9) since that may be causing swings in the CO2.
Additives are generally just not a good idea - fish can tolerate pH beyond their normal ranges (unless you want to breed them) in most cases. The point is that pH changes need to be made gradually and then held stable. Also be wary of additives for algae - they mask the underlying problem and the algae will just return unless you correct the issue.
The "brown algae" is probably diatoms - ugly ugly ugly - but they'll go away in a month or so on their own. Just wipe the glass so that you dont have to look at it.
Snails do ok at eating some algae, but I wouldn't count on them for an algae free tank. I have 20 mystery snails in my 35G and I still have green spot algae.

 

[Andari]

Ya I have some algea growing on the sails of the ship I added to my tank.
Not cool. It is brown. Hopefully it will be like you said and will go away.
If not I"m going to have to scrub it off.

 

[Mosaic]

Your best cleaning crew is you. Algae is normal, and you're never going to not have it, but you can significantly reduce it by keeping up on your maintenance and water quality.
The only algae eaters I'd keep in a tank of that size is an Otocinclus catfish, which actually does a decent job. Beware some of the other fish sold as "algae eaters" they either get very big or very beligerent, and many do a terrible job eating algae. The large apple snails can keep reasonable amounts of certain algaes under control, and do a great job cleaning up food that the fish miss.
Very fast growing stem plants are my favorite for getting rid of algae. What kinds of plants do you have?

 

[bwaymusgal]

Good advice from all the others above. I would just like to second the suggestion for otos. I have four in my 50 gal tank and they do a great job of eating algae. I haven't seen a speck of it since I put them in there (they cleaned up the algae I did have in there overnight the first night I put them in). They are also small and work well with all kind of fish.

 

[pairustwo]

Thanks for all the advice.
I am a little confused about a few things however.

I'd say stop using the pH neutralizer (unless your pH is below 6 or above 9) since that may be causing swings in the CO2. Additives are generally just not a good idea

I have been adding the neutralizer to the tank after a PWC inorder to neutralize the chlorine from the tap (I use what I think is referred to here as a python, running tap water directly into the tank).
In the article on "Making Tap Water Safe for the Aquarium by Removing Chlorine and Chloramine" http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=51
I read the following

Considering the toxicity of chlorine and chloramines found in municipal tap water and the wide array of relatively inexpensive products available to remove them, there is no reason not to use dechlorinator with every water change.

So what is the best product or procedure for refilling my tank in order to provide clean healthy water for the animals?

The article on Algae control http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=14 which is in the salt water section- I don't know if that makes a difference here- says that using Reverse osmosis/ deionization water is the first way of limiting nutrients to algae.

Whatever the source, we must attempt to limit the nutrients from our systems. This can be accomplished through the use of RO/DI water for top off and water changes, use of kalkwasser also known as "lime water" for top off (precipitates phosphates),

Is there a way to do this with a python? They also suggest the use of a protein skimmer. Is that one of those floating algae magnet things?

Thanks, Pairustwo

 

[rich311k]

For a water conditioner use a product called Prime it will remove chlorine and chloramines. It is very cost effiecent as well, a little goes a long way. No need for RO/DI water in a fresh water tank unless you tap is really bad.

You can limit nutrients by doing 50% water changes every week. If you have no live plants, simply limit the amount of time the lights are on and do adequate water changes and you should not have an algae problem.

Protein skimmers do not work on a FW tank so forget about it.

 

[pairustwo]

Do I add the prime after refilling the tank with 50% tap? Or before? Should I be letting the tap water sit overnight before adding?

If I test my tap water what should I be looking for to know how to address it?
I understand the pH should be between around 7 (no lower than 6 and no higher than 9 someone said, but nine sound high), but what else?

thanks for your help.

pairustwo

 

[MyCatsDrool]

Neutral regulator is a PH balancer if i am not mistaken, not a water conditioner.

ph level isn't as important as pH stability. It depends on the fish really what the pH should be. Some cichlids need hard, high pH water. Other fish need soft, lower pH water. I would not worry about the level so much as the stability.

You really need to know the ammonia level, nitrite level and nitrate level. Knowing phosphates can be helpful also if you are having algae problems. Both FW and SW algae like phosphates.

you stated you are using flourite as substrate....do you have plants in your tank other than algae? What kind? What kind of light are you using?


You want the following main levels:

Ammonia (NH3/NH4): 0ppm
Nitrite (NO2): 0ppm
Nitrate (NO3): 5-40ppm

Anthing higher than that is probably bad.

 

[pairustwo]

Seachem Neutral Regulator adjusts pH to a neutral level (pH 7.0) from either a low or high pH and maintains it at a steady level. It softens water by precipitating calcium and magnesium while removing any chlorine, chloramines, or ammonia. The use of Neutral Regulator makes other conditioning unnecessary. For use in freshwater aquariums only.

I have four plants, and I can't tell you what they are called. So at the risk of sounding foolish I'll describe them.
Two are bulbs that produce long runners as roots and long blades of grass like tendrils for leaves.
One is a small plant that came tied down to a piece of drift wood, it has broad dark leaves.
And one I do know it is an amazon sword fern.
I have two florescent lights one is labeled as a plant light and seems to have a broader spectrum and the other is not labeled and seems sort of blueish.

 

[rich311k]

Add the prime right before you refill the tank. What is the wattage of the bulbs?

 

[pairustwo]

So this is what I'm getting from this thread.

1 Stable pH is more important than keeping it at 7.0 which is what my 'Neutral Regulator' is doing.
>>So I should test my tap water pH and if it is within 6.0 - 8.0 let it be and just use 'Prime' to take out nitrites, nitrates, and ammonia.

2 Help the plants in the tank use existing nutrients better in order to compete with the algae
>>do this by fertilizing them.

3 Limit the light that the plants are getting.
>> the tank is not in direct sunlight and it has two 18 inch 15 watt florescent bulbs. one is one is a "GE plant and aquarium" model, the other is just called "aqua glo" I was told that in order for my plants to survive they needed lots of light, but perhaps this is to much.

4 Limit the amount of nutrients going into the tank.
>>Does this mean fish food? I could say that I started getting algae when I started trying to feed the frogs by putting in 'HBH Frog and Tadpole bites' Is over feeding fish a cause of algae?

5 When doing 50% PWC be sure to clean the substrate better in order to pick up extra nutrients.
>> How deep should my substrate be? I've read that mixing sand to the substrate provides a home for the bacteria that would break down nutrients.

6 Add some otos, shrimp and or plecos to help eat the additional nutrients on the bottom of the tank and the algae.
>>Cherry Red Shrimp, Siamese Flying Fox, and Dwarf Otocinclus are recommended. Maybe a bristle nose pleco.

Question recap:
Do I have to much Light?
Do I limit the amount of nutrients by not putting to much food for the frogs? (The fish seem to be ravenous on the every other day feeding schedule and I don't think that they are leaving any flakes behind.)
Should I mix my substrate up with sand or add anything to it?
Anything else I'm missing here?

Thanks for working through this with me.

 

[neilanh]

For Item 1, the Prime is used to take out the chlorine/chloramines in your tap water, not the stuff you listed.

 

[rich311k]

Prime will treat the water. a double dose will help detoxify the ammonia etc.
30 watts over a twenty gallon tank is not that much. I would not fertilize. Leave the lights on for 10 hours a day tops. If the algae still persists drop it to 8.
Cut back on your feedings. A little bit a couple of times a day is perfect. You may have to take extra steps to ensure the frogs get enough to eat.
Bottom feeders and algae eaters will not slove the problem. They can help control it when everything else is in order.