I Need a Serious YES or NO Answer Here: Exhausted Carbon and my Fancy Goldfish...

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Seeing how you haven't posted pictures on this or any other forum who knows what your fish is suffering from. If you were serious about all of this healing your fish should be the first priority, not wasting time chasing some Internet myths. The term troll was appropriately used in at least one of the other threads in my opinion.

Take it easy; I explained why I haven't taken pictures of the fish in my reply to David, and I don't feel I am "wasting time" regardless of what you say.

Further, I am NOT a "troll" and that was NOT the context the term was used in within that other thread -- the member was referring to OTHER members ganging up on people and spinning people in circles with suggestions and then counter-suggestions as they seemingly had been doing in that thread to ME. It wasn't referring to ME.
 
People have been using filter pads with carbon in HOBs for decades. This probably isn't the source of your tank's problems.

The whole 'leeching organics back into the tank' is true.... but not really. It eventually will reach a steady state where organics leave and adsorb at the same rate, so there is no net loss or gain of organics. Temp or pH changes might briefly cause a net change, but it wouldn't be significant.

As far as pathological bacteria living on carbon... Well first off, your article links are broken, so that's not helping. I highly doubt that the articles mean what your source thinks they mean. It's possible that this strain of bacteria is already living in your tank and just not causing problems. Even the phosphate leeching might be an overblown problem considering how often exhausted carbon is left in tanks largely without issue.
 
People have been using filter pads with carbon in HOBs for decades. This probably isn't the source of your tank's problems.

The tank is not having "problems, per se; in fact, I'm totally cycled and the tank is doing well as a whole, with all fish --save for the occasional symptoms I'm seeing on the Moor that I keep referencing -- healthy and active and water remaining crystal clear and fresh. The point of the thread was to ascertain whether it's possible -- or not -- that exhausted carbon infected with some kinds of pathogens suggested to me on this other site could be causing what I'm seeing on my Moor's body...what prompted me to ask about this was the fact that this member on the Koko's forum suggested these "pathogens" and "bacteria" that could come off of exhausted carbon DO cause cysts and tumors on fish -- and THAT is what I seem to be seeing on my Moor...THAT'S how this whole fiasco came about and WHY I'm concerned...

The whole 'leeching organics back into the tank' is true.... but not really. It eventually will reach a steady state where organics leave and adsorb at the same rate, so there is no net loss or gain of organics. Temp or pH changes might briefly cause a net change, but it wouldn't be significant.

As far as pathological bacteria living on carbon... Well first off, your article links are broken, so that's not helping.

I will try and do some research to get that info linked in those forum pages to get them copied and pasted into this thread.

I highly doubt that the articles mean what your source thinks they mean. It's possible that this strain of bacteria is already living in your tank and just not causing problems. Even the phosphate leeching might be an overblown problem considering how often exhausted carbon is left in tanks largely without issue.

He seemed VERY -- absolutely actually -- certain exhausted carbon DOES contain these bacteria and pathogens yielding illness...

I will have to copy and paste that info; let me get back to you...
 
So I've been doing a superficial literature scan, and I can't see what your guy is talking about. To sum up what I've been reading though, Aeromonas sp. (especialy hydrophila) are common in pretty much all aquatic environments in both the water, in the slime of fish, in the substrate, and as a gut flora. It is found in especially high concentrations in more polluted systems.
 
He seemed VERY -- absolutely actually -- certain exhausted carbon DOES contain these bacteria and pathogens yielding illness...

There are quite a few "experts" on that forum. That same expert tells people to dose Prazi at 8 times and twice as many rounds as the dosage on my bottle. This has apparently confused a few folks, who then assumed what they had in their hand must be different from what everyone else was using. Not so, said another one of the experts - it's the same stuff. The owner of that site told someone else a few weeks ago that they "must" have a lid on a betta tank.

You have to do a lot of fact checking on some of these forums. Just because someone has 10,000+ posts, and a moderator tag under their username doesn't mean every word they utter is gospel.
 
Not that fish! :bang head: :cry:

Yeah, Loach, THAT Moor...

But she's okay for now; she has been exhibiting these symptoms since I've been discussing your Moor which recently passed...:(

I'm just trying to figure out if there is a "connection" between the exhausted carbon in my Aqueon filter and the symptoms she is showing via some kind of supposed "pathogen" that may have been introduced by way of the exhausted carbon...:ermm:
 
So I've been doing a superficial literature scan, and I can't see what your guy is talking about. To sum up what I've been reading though, Aeromonas sp. (especialy hydrophila) are common in pretty much all aquatic environments in both the water, in the slime of fish, in the substrate, and as a gut flora. It is found in especially high concentrations in more polluted systems.

Thanks for doing the research; I'm trying to still find those pages the member cited while working on my career freelance assignments...:huh:

So, what does this research you found suggest to you?
 
There are quite a few "experts" on that forum. That same expert tells people to dose Prazi at 8 times and twice as many rounds as the dosage on my bottle. This has apparently confused a few folks, who then assumed what they had in their hand must be different from what everyone else was using. Not so, said another one of the experts - it's the same stuff. The owner of that site told someone else a few weeks ago that they "must" have a lid on a betta tank.

You have to do a lot of fact checking on some of these forums. Just because someone has 10,000+ posts, and a moderator tag under their username doesn't mean every word they utter is gospel.

Understood, 'Sharp; this "Alex" moderator was getting frustrated that I wasn't taking the cartridges out of my filter because he was CERTAIN the pathogens were being introduced into my water column from the exhausted carbon...I wish I knew what the concrete answer here was...

I only joined the site because I was advised that these were better equipped "goldfish owners and raisers" that could yield much more vital information about the fancy goldfish as compared to "general aquarium hobbyist" forums; I don't know what to make of what's going on over there, to be honest with you...:ermm::huh:
 
Understood, 'Sharp; this "Alex" moderator was getting frustrated that I wasn't taking the cartridges out of my filter because he was CERTAIN the pathogens were being introduced into my water column from the exhausted carbon...I wish I knew what the concrete answer here was...

I only joined the site because I was advised that these were better equipped "goldfish owners and raisers" that could yield much more vital information about the fancy goldfish as compared to "general aquarium hobbyist" forums; I don't know what to make of what's going on over there, to be honest with you...:ermm::huh:

I think you are wise to be concerned about your moor. Finding a way to post a photo, even if it means asking a neighbor to bring over their camera and transfer cable, would go a long way toward helping the folks on this thread help you out.

On that other, carbon thing - I just hate to see you tilting at windmills. I'd move on to using that energy to get the photo, and let that issue rest where it belongs.

Just my thoughts. YMMV.
 
IOn that other, carbon thing - I just hate to see you tilting at windmills.

:confused::confused:

I just wanted to get some idea of whether or not exhausted carbon could introduce pathogens into a water column and cause cysts or tumors on scales...
 
:confused::confused:

I just wanted to get some idea of whether or not exhausted carbon could introduce pathogens into a water column and cause cysts or tumors on scales...

Awww...let it go.

Some of the best minds here - which is a lot larger bunch of folks than there - can't make heads or tails of the claim.

Just let it go.

We need pics of your moor.
 
Okay so I've been reading through this thread and I have to say that I firmly believe that your filter isn't the source of your problems. Why? Because I own the same exact filter and use the same exact cartridges.

Here's the kicker: I leave my cartridges in on average at least 5-6 months at a time. Then I might swap one out. I've only cleaned that filter once ever. Well that's not true i just make sure the intake tube and impeller aren't clogged with gunk.

I never worry about the carbon. If carbon really caused issues NO ONE would ever use it. Not even the pet stores. Think about it, you've answered your own question practically. Your tank is clear and pristine and all your other fish are healthy except the moor. Well then I would QT the moor until you can figure out what is ailing him.

Also I wanted to add that you can expand your BB in that filter by dropping media into the bottom of the box. So if you emptied the carbon from the floss you could stuff the floss with media and/or fill in the bottom.

Personally I don't mind the carbon. Doesn't affect my tank at all.

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Thank you very much, Dark and Chick; let me chew on what you both stated and get back to this thread in a bit...(y) :thanks:
 
After some effort:

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/en/admicrob2.pdf

http://aem.asm.org/content/52/3/434.full.pdf


For those of you with better things to do, I'll summarize the pertinent points. Essentially, the study looked at bacteria that got past waste treatment plants attached to the very fine particles shed from GAC. They did this by first measuring the bacterial content of water normally, and then measuring water that had been 'homogenzied', thereby dislodging bacteria that might be attached to tiny carbon particles and allowing them to be measured. 201 samples were measured, none of which tested positive for Aeromonas using normal techniques and five or three (depending on what method they used to detect the bacteria) tested positive after homogenization.

What does this mean? Purified drinking water might have aeromonas sp. in it. But remember that aeromonas is omnipresent in most freshwater systems, this isn't particularly worrisome. Additionally, by nature of the necessarily polluted water in aquariums (due to the bioload:volume ratio compared to a normal ecosystem), I imagine that there is already a sizeable population in most of our tanks already.
 
I'm sorry if I didn't research this information fast enough; I'm trying to keep up with this thread while working on a deadline...

And, additionally, I didn't mean to imply that people here don't have "anything better" to do with their time than assist with the elements surrounding this thread's subject. That's just ridiculous.
 
Exhausted filter carbon harbors pathogens in the same way water harbors pathogens. The claim just doesn't hold water, pardon the pun.

Its like adding new fish to a tank but not adding the water they came in for fear of introducing pathogens.
 
And, additionally, I didn't mean to imply that people here don't have "anything better" to do with their time than assist with the elements surrounding this thread's subject. That's just ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure he meant that as a preface for his summary, it wasn't directed at anyone or anything. Studies and journals like that are very dry reading.
 
Exhausted filter carbon harbors pathogens in the same way water harbors pathogens. The claim just doesn't hold water, pardon the pun.

Its like adding new fish to a tank but not adding the water they came in for fear of introducing pathogens.

Thanks for the analogy, Jeta...

But, if I may ask, aren't there people who believe you shouldn't add the water new fish came in -- from the store they were purchased at -- for fear of adding "disease" to their clean tank? Unless that's not what you meant...:oops:
 
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