Ideal water qualities for a planted tank + betta

[deskbetta]

Hi, I'm new the forum! I am searching for a list of 'ideal water quality levels'. Here's what I have:

1 gallon 'tank' on my desk at work
A hood and a small light
1 male betta
1 java fern
1 clump of java moss
4 floating water sprites

We have an RO unit here at work, so I am using the RO water here from work. I got a little impatient and first set the tank up with 1/2 spring water and 1/2 RO water because I didn't have any RO remineralization additive.

I set the tank up on 10/8. We are 10 days into this, and it is going well. Seems to be doing well. I am a little obsessive about partial water changes (like, every 2-3 days). I am also a little obsessive about my water chemistry.

I used to work at a very nice lfs, and I learned a lot from the people there. One of the things that really hit home to me was how crucial the correct water chemistry is for fish to really thrive.

So, I am looking for a list of 'ideals' for my little betta man (Laurent).

pH? (assuming 7 is fine for the betta)
kH?
gH?

Obviously we want NH3, NO2 and NO3 to be as close to null as possible.

I realize that my plants would love lots of CO2, and I understand that is related that the kH. I'm not quite sure on HOW it is related, but I lowering kH increases your CO2.

I'll get into the actual manipulation of my water in another post. right now, I'm interested in hearing ideal levels.

Thanks so much, looking forward to the responses!

- Shelby and Laurent

 

[gheitman]

I've never kept a betta myself but you might find some helpful information at the following link:

FishProfiles.com - Betta splendens

I hope this helps you.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

It's my understanding that as long as you are doing your water changes as you currently are, you should be OK. One gallon is small--even for a betta--and so I wouldn't recommend playing with your water composition at all. At that low amount, the least slip up or instability is going to be magnified in the health of your fish. Here, the prevailing advice is to not mess with PH regardless of tank size.

Just keep being obsessive with the water changes to make sure your toxins are low, and you should be OK.

 

[bluerose]

Most pHs are fine as long as they are stable.

Ammonia and nitrite need to be 0 (over .5ppm warrants a 50% water change). Nitrates on the other hand can be up to 40ppm and plants use nitrates as nutrients, so 0 is not necessarily a good thing. Read up on cycling for information although as you have a fish you won't be following the 'fishless cycling' method.

Don't mess with your KH or GH. The plants you have are low-light plants and shouldn't need much outside of light and waste although fertilizers wouldn't hurt (might want to do root tabs for such a small tank as dosing most liquid ferts would be very difficult).

 

[An t-iasg]

I agree - don't try to change KH or GH, or pH. Fish will adapt if acclimated properly and the stability of those values is more important than an "ideal" value. I see you've used RO water - this is fine if you feel your pH is very high (high to me means over 8.0) but you should use no more than half RO water and then half tap water, or spring water, since it most likely has minerals in it.

Lowering your KH value (by using RO water with your tap or spring water) will not raise your CO2 levels. If you're not injecting CO2, the CO2 level in your water will become equal with the atmospheric CO2, which is 3-4 ppm. Here is a good article that explains the relationship between KH, pH, and CO2:

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

 

[deskbetta]

Thanks for the responses!

The reason I have to worry about the kH and gH is that I will be using 100% RO water in the future. The tap water at my office is not safe, it has a very high level of arsenic. So that is not an option to use in the tank.

So I will be adjusting the kH and gH BEFORE it goes into my tank. I was just wondering what ideal levels I should be aiming for.

Thanks for the very good article! I love wrapping my head around water chemistry!!!

 

[jsoong]

Betta will be OK in pH between 6 & 8, as long as it is stable. Its natural enviroment would be soft water around pH of 7.0.

To keep pH stable, you need adequate buffering capacity. This can be done with the addition of remineralizing salts <since you cannot use tap>. Depending on what you use, you can get proper buffering at different pH's.

If you were to use a bicarbonate based buffer - people often use crushed coral or baking soda rather than lfs stuff - then I'd aim for a KH of 3-4, which corresponds to a pH of 7.2 - 7.4. This should be enough KH to maintain stability & not too hard for betta. <Although I have kept betta with my tap of 7.8 pH & KH of 200ppm .... so betta can live in harder water than its natural environment.>

You can also buffer with commercial buffers to give pH in the high 6's. I have no personal experence with those.

One thing to note is that whatever regime you decide on, you would need to use the same recipe religiously with each pwc. With a small tank, you do not have a lot of room for errors when doctoring water.

 

[deskbetta]

Thank you! That is EXACTLY the information I was looking for! I am working on finding the 'magic' mixture, doing all of my tests on water that I'm not adding to my tank. So, I can create the 'perfect' chemistry before I add it to my tank. And once I do find the right mix, I will transition the tank over VERY slowly to it.

I picked up three products to help me with this, all by Seachem. Equilibrium, Acid Buffer, and Alkeline Buffer. I have been playing with the three on test water to see what changes I can make in the chemistry. So I needed some goal numbers, as I'm figuring out how to make the adjustments.

Again, these adjustments that I'm playing with are NOT in the tank. I want to get it completely figured out before I make any changes to what I'm doing with the betta. He is happy with his current situation, so I'll only change when I have my balance figured out.

 

[deskbetta]

HALP!

OK, I have not done anything in the little tank, except a partial water change on Sunday. And my pH is through the roof. 8.8!!! yipes.

10/17/08
pH = 7.6
kH = 4
gH = 3
NO2 = 0
NH3 = 0.5
NO3 = 5

10/18/08
pH = 8
kH = 3
gH = 3
NO2 = 0
NH3 = 0.5
NO3 = 5

10/19/08 - 30% water change

10/22/08
pH = 8.8
kH = 4
gH = 4
NO2 = 0
NH3 = 0
NO3 = 0

My pH is climbing. My pH test kit only goes up to 8.8. So it may even be higher than 8.8, no way for me to tell. The betta seems to be doing well so far, no climbing pH does not seem to be causing adverse effects yet. I'm sure it's on the way, and I'm concerned.

I am currently doing tests on the water I added (50% RO water, 50% bottled water) to see what's up with that.

K. The water I added:
pH = 7.4
kH = 4
gH = 3

There have been no additions. My substrate isn't anything special, no limestone or sand or anything. No driftwood. Just my java moss, java fern, water sprite, and one betta.

So my water is poorly buffered? I have the Seachem Acid Buffer and Alkaline Buffer. Alkaline buffer will raise my pH. So, don't wanna do that! Guess I'm gonna go with the Acid Buffer? My plan is to doctor the water I will add to the tank. But there's nothing WRONG with the water I am adding. ARG.

WAh.

 

[deskbetta]

Well. My pH is back to 7.6. OK....can't tall you why, all I'm doing is partial water changes. But, OK! I'll take it!

10/24/08
pH = 7.6
kH = 3
gH = 2
NO2 = 0
NH3 = 0
NO3 = 5

 

[bluerose]

Screwing around with water chemistry can do interesting things to pH.

I was doing 50/50 spring water and tap, pH both 7.6, and had a pH in my tank of about 6.2. (KH of tap was normal, of tank water was zero...)

A few weeks of regular full-tap PWCs later it's at 7.6. Haven't retested the KH but I suspect it's back up as well.



Another idea: does your tap water at home have a lot of arsenic in it as well? Could you get a 1gal jug and refill that from home instead? With such a small water volume mixing in buffers could easily be problematic I would think.

 

[jsoong]

I have no idea what caused the pH spike. It does not appeared to be any carbonates leaching into the tank, as the KH was unchanged. <Plus the return back to normal pH would argue against that.>

One explanation would be a temporary change in your tap water. Perhaps they have added NaOH for some reason & that is not filtered out with the R/O unit??? But this is a wild guess.

I agree with bluenose, transporting 1 gal of water from home would be a viable option.

 

[deskbetta]

I think I am going to do some testing on my home tap water, to see how that is. I have not really kept fish on Alaska well water before, so I have no idea what the levels will be. But I might as well check it out! I don't like that pH spike, and I REALLY don't like not knowing what caused it. =(

Although, part of my reason for keeping a fish at work was to take advantage of the RO unit. *laughs* Maybe I need to just start really messing with the RO unit and find the 'magic' mix to keep everything steady.

Seriously, I love this part of keeping fish so much! The ever present quest for water quality perfection. *laughs*

 

[block2]

Hi Deskbetta,

You ever thought of trying Indian Almond Leaves. I was introduced to the leaves by a couple of Thai Betta breeders. When the Indian Almond dried leaves are placed into the water, a strong brown dye is given off. The dye contains organic acids humic and tannins. The water darkens to a yellowish brown (tea-like color) after a few days, which is exactly the same as the Betta fishes' natural habitat. The changed water seems to harden their scales. It helps them heal wounds and ward off illnesses.
The humic and tannins from the Indian almond leaves also lowers the pH of the water, absorbs harmful chemicals and helps create a soothing and calm environment for the fish. The leaves can also be used to treat bacteria infection and help the Bettas recover from injuries. Some people also use them to increase breeding frequency. But be careful, because it also makes the male more aggressive at breeding time. On the other hand, it also helps the female recover from any wounds she receives during the breeding process.

I use one square-inch of leaf per half-gallon of water for individual fish. One leaf per 10-gallon rearing tank for the fry. One-leaf per half-filled 10-gallon breeding tank.

I have recently gathered quite a few leaves as I am based in Thailand, if you need any of the leaves PM me, prices are very very reasonable and include postage and packing via airmail from Thailand.

Regards
Jeff

 

[deskbetta]

I did have someone else suggest the Indian Almond Leaves to me from a different forum. My only issue with that is the water color change. In my own home, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But it is on my desk at work, and people could easily think the water was 'dirty' and my boss specifically said the fish was only OK if it was kept clean.

 

[new2betas]

Where can one obtain Indian Almond Leaves??

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

Block2 is selling some:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f25/indian-almond-leaves-106896.html

Dottie I'm a Pisces also and I think its does explain it, lol

 

[new2betas]

Thanks so much, Matt! I haven't been on regularly lately due to obligations with kid's school activities, etc...but I check in every once in a while and completely missed this post! I PM'd the guy and asked about a pack of 30, since I only have two male bettas presently!

LOL....pisces does explain a lot! I also have a twin brother and he is in the process of setting up his first tank in a long time!

 

[fearlessfisch]

I would really get a larger tank for him.

 

[deskbetta]

Well, I found my 'magic balance'. The tank is doing GREAT! I am using 100% RO water, 2 measures of Seachem Equilibrium, 2 measures of Seachem Alkeline Buffer, and 1 measure of Seachem Acid Buffer. This is giving me a wonderful pH of 7.4, a kH of 7, and a gH of 9. I am much happier with this kH, it should buffer my pH a LOT better!

My watersprite is going CRAZY! Wow, it is super super happy. Laurent (the betta) is also super happy. Active, great color, very social.

I went to pick up a used 5 gallon tank from craigslist today...and that tank came with fish. I hadn't expected that! One of the fish is another betta, so...guess Laurent will stay in his original tank, and the new guy will stay in the bigger one. Wasn't really the plan, but guess that's how it works!

I'll have an update with pictures of the new tank soon.