Inline UP atomiser

[Caliban07]

I'm going inline. Not always being one to follow instructions and using my own logic and initiative to try and improve a design or procedure I often find myself wishing I had just done what it said on the tin so to speak.

So this atomiser instructs the user to place the atomiser in line with the outflow of the canister but I'm thinking maybe it would be better on the inlet?

Any thoughts?


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[Fresh2o]

I see what your saying. On the inlet side there would be no chance that the CO2 would make it to the surface of the tank and be wasted. The media should trap it and extend the contact time with the incoming water. It should achieve 100% absorption. Plus, no "mist" in the display tank.
Some canister manufacturers discourage the placement of air diffusers near the filter intake because it would introduce an unmanageable amount of air into the canister and this could affect performance. IMO the CO2 mist is so fine that it should not aggregate into "super bubbles".
I would monitor the drop checker colors to ensure that appropriate amounts of CO2 are being maintained.


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[Thrills22]

I see what your saying. On the inlet side there would be no chance that the CO2 would make it to the surface of the tank and be wasted. The media should trap it and extend the contact time with the incoming water. It should achieve 100% absorption. Plus, no "mist" in the display tank.
Some canister manufacturers discourage the placement of air diffusers near the filter intake because it would introduce an unmanageable amount of air into the canister and this could affect performance. IMO the CO2 mist is so fine that it should not aggregate into "super bubbles".
I would monitor the drop checker colors to ensure that appropriate amounts of CO2 are being maintained.

I was looking into this recently before I bought my diffuser and my take on it/opinion is that the potential for things to go wrong is simply too high. There are people who diffuse this way without any issue whatsoever but I've also come across people who claim they killed their filter bacs by starving the filter of oxygen, gas build ups, bubbles slowly degrading the impeller, noise, and a few other issues. I'm not sure what the rules are here in terms of linking to other forums but a googling of "CO2 in filter" should bring up the relevant threads. Obviously we're here to give opinions and given the list of things than can go wrong using this methog of diffusion, for me personally, it isn't worth the risk that seems to come with this method of diffusion.

Also the inline diffusion (on the outflow) doesn't get rid of the fizz look. But I've been reading that outflow reactors remove the bubbles 100%

Hope at least some of that helps.

 

[Caliban07]

I was looking into this recently before I bought my diffuser and my take on it/opinion is that the potential for things to go wrong is simply too high. There are people who diffuse this way without any issue whatsoever but I've also come across people who claim they killed their filter bacs by starving the filter of oxygen, gas build ups, bubbles slowly degrading the impeller, noise, and a few other issues. I'm not sure what the rules are here in terms of linking to other forums but a googling of "CO2 in filter" should bring up the relevant threads. Obviously we're here to give opinions and given the list of things than can go wrong using this methog of diffusion, for me personally, it isn't worth the risk that seems to come with this method of diffusion.

Also the inline diffusion (on the outflow) doesn't get rid of the fizz look. But I've been reading that outflow reactors remove the bubbles 100%

Hope at least some of that helps.

Yes it did. I think I actually wanted a reactor and not a diffuser. I already have a diffuser which I have directly placed under the canister filter intake. There are much less bubbles in the tank this way. No noise of complaining from the canister but I have noticed cloudy water sometimes during co2 on time so you may be on to something with co2 affecting the bacteria colonies. I'm just going to stick the diffuser on the outflow and call it good.


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[KingKoopa512]

Im with thrills. Took the words rigjt out of my mouth

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[Caliban07]

Thanks fresh

 

[Caliban07]

How do reactors work then?


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[Fresh2o]

How do reactors work then?


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Basically, whole bubbles (not a mist) of CO2 are introduced near the bottom of a vertical chamber and as they rise, they are met with the downward current of incoming water from a pump or canister filter. The bubbles float in suspension until the are eventually absorbed into the water. DIY and commercial models are available. There are two primary DIY designs: Cerges and Rex-Grigg. I really don't know the difference between the two. These can be easily fabricated using PVC pipes and the appropriate connectors. Some reactors are filled with plastic media to increase surface area/contact area.
Advantages of reactors are that they utilize 100% of the CO2, require less psi and a lower bps to operate effectively.


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[Thrills22]

Yes it did. I think I actually wanted a reactor and not a diffuser. I already have a diffuser which I have directly placed under the canister filter intake. There are much less bubbles in the tank this way. No noise of complaining from the canister but I have noticed cloudy water sometimes during co2 on time so you may be on to something with co2 affecting the bacteria colonies. I'm just going to stick the diffuser on the outflow and call it good.

From what I understand the cloud is symptomatic of bacteria loss with this injection method. Given how good your setup is a crash and the rebuilding of bacs isn't where you want to be.

Basically, whole bubbles (not a mist) of CO2 are introduced near the bottom of a vertical chamber and as they rise, they are met with the downward current of incoming water from a pump or canister filter. The bubbles float in suspension until the are eventually absorbed into the water. DIY and commercial models are available. There are two primary DIY designs: Cerges and Rex-Grigg. I really don't know the difference between the two. These can be easily fabricated using PVC pipes and the appropriate connectors. Some reactors are filled with plastic media to increase surface area/contact area.
Advantages of reactors are that they utilize 100% of the CO2, require less psi and a lower bps to operate effectively.


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Fresh with the stellar info as per usual. I just bookmarked this just in case I decide to use one. It's the last thing on my to do list but really helpful info to hold onto.

 

[Caliban07]

Basically, whole bubbles (not a mist) of CO2 are introduced near the bottom of a vertical chamber and as they rise, they are met with the downward current of incoming water from a pump or canister filter. The bubbles float in suspension until the are eventually absorbed into the water. DIY and commercial models are available. There are two primary DIY designs: Cerges and Rex-Grigg. I really don't know the difference between the two. These can be easily fabricated using PVC pipes and the appropriate connectors. Some reactors are filled with plastic media to increase surface area/contact area.
Advantages of reactors are that they utilize 100% of the CO2, require less psi and a lower bps to operate effectively.


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Thanks. So I've just spent money on the inline atomiser so I'm gonna give that a try for the time being. I'll put it on the outflow. The 100% co2 utilisation does sound appealing but they reactors themselves look a bit off putting. Clumsy and more potential for leaks. We shall see.


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[Thrills22]

Thanks. So I've just spent money on the inline atomiser so I'm gonna give that a try for the time being. I'll put it on the outflow. The 100% co2 utilisation does sound appealing but they reactors themselves look a bit off putting. Clumsy and more potential for leaks. We shall see.


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My thoughts exactly! It's why I've left this until I can do more research. If I could find one that has a screw/connector which secures the connection between the plastic and the tubing I'd make a purchase. But the ones I've seen so far seem unsecure in that regard.

 

[Fresh2o]

From what I understand the cloud is symptomatic of bacteria loss with this injection method. Given how good your setup is a crash and the rebuilding of bacs isn't where you want to be.



Fresh with the stellar info as per usual. I just bookmarked this just in case I decide to use one. It's the last thing on my to do list but really helpful info to hold onto.

Thanks!
Caliban has raised some good points. Any break in the tubing can become a potential leak and any additional length or obstruction decreases throughout. Those are general statements, of course. You can always add steel clamps or nylon quick release clamps to shore up connections.
Chemical reactors used in SW setups can sometimes serve as CO2 reactors. They be expensive though.
The efficiency of reactors cannot be overlooked and can make the most of a modest DIY CO2 generator.
Currently I'm using a diffuser. Usually placed just below the HOB filter intake, however, for the last week I've placed it so that the filter output catches the mist and pushes it around the tank. Visually, it looks like a snow storm. I cannot tell if it is skewing the drop checker reading because of the presence of visible CO2 bubbles in the water column.


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[Caliban07]

Well I'm sure my concerns are exaggerated to a veteran who has used this method of diffusing for a while but for me. If the effort involved, no matter how small, is not worth the benefits then I'm just not going to bother for example, if the growth yield and saved co2 is only marginally noticeable, I'd rather stick with what I'm doing.

Fresh I have done both of those methods and to be honest I saw better results from the outlet blowing the bubbles further round the tank. You just have to put with that snow storm is all. I'll hook up the inline atomiser and give some feedback in this thread.


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[KingKoopa512]

What kind of inline atomizer did you get?

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[Caliban07]

This one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00VUYBATA?pc_redir=T1


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[KingKoopa512]

Nice! I got the same obe a week ago so far so good. Plants are pearling , very very small micro bubbls

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[Caliban07]

Nice! I got the same obe a week ago so far so good. Plants are pearling , very very small micro bubbls

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Excellent! I'm a bit concerned about the cleaning. Any tips for cleaning diffusers?


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[Fresh2o]

Excellent! I'm a bit concerned about the cleaning. Any tips for cleaning diffusers?


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In general, for diffusers:
If performed frequently, then soaking in H2O2 could work. No need to rinse.
A soak in a water:bleach solution will will do a more thorough job, however, diligent rinsing and a soak in water with Prime is recommended.
For regular diffusers, this can be performed when not in use (~16 hours out of the day). Or alternating diffusers if you have more than one.
For in-line diffusers, this can be a bit more cumbersome since it requires shutting off the filter/pump and tubing disconnection.
GLA recommends using its own diffuser cleaning solution.


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[Caliban07]

Thanks fresh. Why does prime have to be involved in everything when it's a pig to get over here! Haha.

Atomiser has arrived. The video I watched was a guy setting up the atomiser with a 305/6 and he instructed to get the 16/22 size for the fluval tubing. When I checked the rubber adaptors need for my filter the 205/6 the adaptors were the size below his so I went and order the atomiser a size below. In his video the grey adaptors for the tubing



Push up to the compression screws and fit nicely inside then the compression screws Tighten up against the rubber adaptor for a better seal. Unfortunately, my adaptors won't go inside the compression screws because the are the same diameter which means I have to just push the adaptor over the thread of the atomiser like this



I mean it's fairly tight but I'd hate to cut my tubing only to find there is a leak. I suppose I could use the adaptors to join the cut until I order the right atomiser. It doesn't make sense though as the 306 has larger tubing. I know the 205 is pretty old now. Maybe that is why.

Would you guys risk it?


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[Delapool]

There was one here where it leaked into the stand and made a mess before it could be fixed. From what I've seen a lot of people get them to work fine (personally I don't use them due to the risk even though I suspect they could be more efficient).