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[Johnny Tuttle]

I've got a planted 21 gallon with platties, guppies, and neons. Is it bad that I don't remember the names of all of my plants? I've got Java moss, anubias hastafolia (a fair amount), a free floating banana one, and three others.

Soon, I'll have otos, too.

When I'd been in the hobby ages ago as a youngster, I hadn't heard of adding in ghost shrimp or apple snails to a tank, but now, I'm intrigued, particularly given that I opted not to have cories (even though pigmies are available at a LFS) becaue of overstocking concerns and my having used gravel instead of sand.

What sort of bioload would a pair of shrimp or an apple snail add to the tank? Would the apple snail and otos end up competing for the same algae as food? Woud either the shrimp or the apple snails eat the tiny snails that came in with my plants? Would either of the options end up just eating up all of my plants?

And lastly, I would think that if the shrimp reproduced, the fish would gobble up the youngsters willingly. But would an apple snail end up flooding the tank with offspring?

My water is hard--I would think that with the shells or exoskeletons, both species would need that.

Thanks very much.

 

[bs6749]

What kind of shrimp are you talking about? You could literally have dozens upon dozens of dwarf shrimp in a tank that size with no effect on the bioload. Maybe if you have a certain type of shrimp in mind I can point you in the right direction and more thoroughly answer your questions.

As far as the apple snails goes, I am not certain but I think they produce sexually so you'd need two of them to have any babies in the tank. I could be wrong though since I have almost no experience with snails.

Hard water would be good for the snails and calcium would be beneficial too. However, there are several species of shrimp that are commonly available that NEED soft and acidic water in order to live full lives and to reproduce. They might live for several months in your tank instead of 2+ years that's how much it matters for some shrimp.

 

[Menagerie]

Is it bad that I don't remember the names of all of my plants?

Nope!

given that I opted not to have cories (even though pigmies are available at a LFS) becaue of overstocking concerns and my having used gravel instead of sand.

I understand overstocking concerns, but not the gravel. My little guys did fine with gravel. The only problem is if you have to break the tank down--they tend to hide by sticking their heads in the gravel and laying still--makes them hard to see!

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

I'd always heard that cories prefer sandy substrates--that gravel hurts their mouths as they search for food.

I'm tempted to get a pair of a shrimp and an apple snail if the bioload effects are going to be minimal. That would be a pretty sight in the tank.

 

[bs6749]

What kind of shrimp though? If dwarf shrimp then it'd be best to have a number of them in order to have a breeding colony since your fish will most likely snack on the shrimp from time to time. If you put a pair in there they will be gone very soon unless you tank is heavily planted. The platies would be your biggest concern with larger shrimp but all of the shrimp would snack on the young ones.

 

[jsoong]

Big Apples snails can have quite an effect on the bio-load, you prob should count it as a 2-3" fish.

Apple snails are sexual, so you need 2 to have babies. However, females can store sperm so it is possible to get some babies even with one. They do lay eggs above the water, so as long as you remove the egg clutches, you should be fine.

In a planted tank, make sure you get P. bridgisii's. This is the only one that will not eat all your plant overnight. you can get a positive ID by going to applesnail.net. Don't trust the pet store labels ....

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

My LFS has Caridina heteropoda, at least, that's what they saying they have. If it were Neocaridina heteropoda, that would be cherry shrimp. These might be Amanos....

Would three or four of these hurt by bioload? Amanos are 4x the size of cherries: any chance they eat my plants or my sleeping fish at night?

 

[bs6749]

My LFS has Caridina heteropoda, at least, that's what they saying they have. If it were Neocaridina heteropoda, that would be cherry shrimp. These might be Amanos....

Would three or four of these hurt by bioload? Amanos are 4x the size of cherries: any chance they eat my plants or my sleeping fish at night?

There is no "Caridina heteropoda" that I am aware of. Neocaridina heteropoda comes in many varieties, red cherries being one color variety, yellow being another, and the wild color form too. There may be others but those are the top 3 most commonly seen in the hobby. You might as well figure that shrimp will have no impact on the bioload. You can easily and safely have over 250 red cherry shrimp in a 10 gallon tank and a 55 gallon could handle well over 1500.

 

[JohnPaul]

My LFS has Caridina heteropoda, at least, that's what they saying they have. If it were Neocaridina heteropoda, that would be cherry shrimp. These might be Amanos....

Would three or four of these hurt by bioload? Amanos are 4x the size of cherries: any chance they eat my plants or my sleeping fish at night?

I don't think there is any such thing as Caridina heteropoda, only Neocaridina heteropoda (the scientific name of the Red Cherry and Yellow Shrimps). The one (alleged) mention online I've found of a supposed Caridina heteropoda was (not so shockingly) actually a mislabeled picture of a yellow Neocaridina heteropoda.

Thus, I would say your LFS is simply confused about what they have. Amanos are Caridina japonica... without a picture, it's impossible to say for sure.

No matter what, no, a few of them aren't going to add to your bioload, and they aren't going to harm healthy plants. Indeed, having some good dwarf shrimp is actually healthier for plants, as the shrimp will eat some of the algae and other microorganisms that grow on plant leaves (and thus can sometimes block out some of the light).

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

With two platties, three guppies, 10 neons, and an apple shrimp, do I risk crowding to get ten Neocaridina heteropodas? It would be like having a third "school" in the tank (counting the livebearers together, as they often are).

 

[bs6749]

With two platties, three guppies, 10 neons, and an apple shrimp, do I risk crowding to get ten Neocaridina heteropodas? It would be like having a third "school" in the tank (counting the livebearers together, as they often are).

I doubt it but what size tank are we talking about here? I'm more worried that your fish will wat the shrimp than I am about the tank being overstocked. The platies and guppies, along with the neons will make short work of any shrimp that are less than 1/4" and the platies will take out even larger ones since they have wider mouths. To make things work you'd want a larger tank that is well planted and provides lots of cover for the shrimp. If I were you I'd plan to have the shrimp live no more than a couple of months.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

This is a 21 gallon with a fair number of plants, but not heavily planted.

That's why I'm thinking Amano over cherry--the amanos are 1-2" and the cherries are only 0.5", right?

 

[bs6749]

No, cherries will grow to about 1.25" with males being slightly smaller and not sure about Amanos but doubt they's get much larger than that. I say go with cherries since Amanos can be had to find and they are usually $3-4 each or more before shipping if you can find them online or they are $6 or more in LFS.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

Thanks very much for all of your help in this thread, bs6749: one last question: would you say cherries over ghosts? Could I combine the three?

I've read online that ghost shrimp become aggressive towards fish in warmer waters, and I'm at 78/80 for my tank now....would I have to worry about it eating sleeping neons?

 

[bs6749]

Fish over 1/2" are safe from ghost shrimp. You can combine ghost shrimp and either red cherries or yellows but not both. Also be aware that ghost shrimp may eat RCS or yellow shrimp babies. You can't keep yellows and RCS together successfully because they are both in the genus Neocaridina and they will interbreed. Actually, the yellow and reds are the same species but a different color form. Keeping them together isn't a good idea because they will crossbreed and turn either brown or more clear like the wild color form.

I've heard the same thing about the ghost shrimp being aggressive at warmer temps and noticed that when I got mine and put them in a tank with water that is about 66 degrees they are much more inactive than they are at say 74 degrees.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

How warm do you typically keep your ghost shrimp?

 

[bs6749]

I don't even have a heater in the tank so it stays near whatever room temp is. Right now the tank is around 66 degrees but it may get as low as mid 50's. They can live in a range of temps and that's perfectly fine for them. Are you looking for some RCS then? If you are, send me a PM because I have some for sale.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

The only question I would have is one comparable to when someone else asked for some of my guppy fry--how would you get them half way across NA safely?

I would be interested, but the logistics seem tough

 

[bs6749]

I ship them all the time. In fact, I have shipped over 500 of them since mid July without a single death. Some to members on here, some on other forums, some on AquaBid, etc. I put them in a Kordon Breather Bag with some Java moss to cling to. Supposedly these Breather Bags are tested on fish and they stayed alive for 7 days. I don't doubt this one bit because I had 15 quarter size angelfish shipped to me and due to being sent to the wrong address they were all in the same bag for 5 days with no oxygen added to the bag initially and no food either. A breather bag could easily add a couple of days for a fish. Shrimp are much smaller and could easily handle 10 days IMO so 2-3 in the bag is nothing for them to go through. I ship them via USPS Priority Mail (2 days). Cherry shrimp can tolerate a wide range of temperatures from low 50's or colder to mid 80's or warmer. Some shrimp such as crystal reds and blacks are more finicky and you'd need to add heat packs in a styrofoam box for this time of year.