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Old 12-01-2011, 10:34 PM   #1
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Unhappy Is my female Blue Ram in danger? Pics

I brought this pair of GBR's home and they were getting along great. The female went and found a spot that she liked and started to defend it. All seemed well. Came home one day and it appeared that part of her dorsal fin was ripped off plus a gouge to her forehead. She has also lost color.

I have a peaceful community tank and can't imagine anyone else in the tank doing this. Pretty sure the male is the culprit.

I'm just wondering if the male will likely continue to beat up on the female and should I remove her?

150g tank
Ph = 6
Ammo = 0
Nitrites = 0
Nitrates = 2
temp = 80-81

Injured Female



Male

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Old 12-01-2011, 11:00 PM   #2
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Wow, that really is bad! If the male did not do it, I suspect it is fungus (in fact, it looks more a lot like that). It seems that it may have broken out, GBRs are known for being notoriously sensitive.

What are you using to test your water? Strips or a liquid test kit?
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:22 PM   #3
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Hi Bruins,
This is clearly an injury but I know what you mean about the fungus. Either she was attacked or she ran into something. She went from perfect to injured. I hope the male doesn't go all postal on her.

Using API master

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Old 12-01-2011, 11:24 PM   #4
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Ah I see.

But...0 nitrates does sound off some sort of alarm. Is this tank heavily planted? You should be getting at least some nitrates, unless you're a planted addict, like me

For now do some more constant PWCs and see if that helps. Clean water is always healthy for fish.
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:34 PM   #5
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I was pegging it at 2 ppm since it was rather saturated but yes it is low. I do 40% PWC's a week and clean a FX5 once a month.

It might have something to do with adding Prime directly to my tank (5 capfulls before adding water). I'm adding tap directly at a slow rate when refilling. It's a built in tank with a hose above the tank (drained into sink).
I've got about four plants and the rest are plastic.
I'm thinking the added Prime each week is keeping the Nitrates down (or binded).
What do you think?
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:36 AM   #6
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Mmm.
Each capful of prime doses 50 gallons of water, so depending on your tank size, you're overdosing. Don't worry, I used to do this too But that also means your ammonia may not be coming out right.

IMO I add tap water straight in and it takes ten minutes to fill up the tank, the fish are fine. After full I dose a capful of Prime.

What size tank is this???

Nitrates don't really go away with Prime. They go away with water changes.

How do you clean your filters? If you clean them with straight tap water, that could be your problem. You may be experiencing a mini-cycle, and since GBRs are so sensitive to everything I would suggest that's where the fungus came from.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:46 AM   #7
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I am no expert, and this might be too obvious, but are you sure the other GBR is a male? It looks just like my own, and mine is (supposedly) female according to both my research and my LFS that saw my pictures. In fact, I thought mine was a male when I picked her out, then upon reading about black pelvic fins and blue sheen through the black spot as being female characteristics...well...I was forced to admit I was wrong about my gender guess. And your "male" GBR has those traits too.

If both fish are female, then perhaps that might change the scenario, resulting in a more combative dynamic?

Check out a few fish web sites on female GBR markings, or maybe some of the experts on this forum can correctly judge the gender of your GBR and advise on the situation.

Just my two cents! Good luck.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:50 AM   #8
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IMO the first one is a female, second one is a male. You can tell by the solid black spangles in his dot
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Old 12-02-2011, 02:19 AM   #9
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This is the link that changed my mind about my GBR gender.
Look about half way down the page.
It is not totally conclusive, though the black color on the pelvic fins seemed to be an easy-to-see characteristic.
I am not saying I am certain, just that I was wrong about mine, according to my LFS and mine looks very close!
(zoom pic below)

Who knows? Maybe mine is male, after all! He (she?) is nipping at my larger angels!

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cich...manblueram.php



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Old 12-02-2011, 03:42 AM   #10
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GBRs are so ridiculously inbred or hormonally hyped that proper sexing based on one or two traits is impossible. I've seen pink bellied males, mohawked females, and all different derivations of spots and stripes. You need to use several signs to properly sex them...

That being said, the ovipositor doesn't lie.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruinsbro1997 View Post

What size tank is this???

Nitrates don't really go away with Prime. They go away with water changes.

How do you clean your filters? If you clean them with straight tap water, that could be your problem. You may be experiencing a mini-cycle, and since GBRs are so sensitive to everything I would suggest that's where the fungus came from.
Tank is 150 Gal. I rinse my filter/bio with tank water as to not kill my bacteria.

Yes, I overdose the tank since I'm adding Prime/tap directly. I also turn my filter off whilst adding tap water. Once full and stirred a few times, I turn filter back on. Has been working except for the mystery low nitrates.

I should add that the 24 hours after each water change my tests all read high for amm, nitrite and nitrate. My tap water has amm, nitrites and nitrates. I read that the Prime binds these and they are harmless. After 24 hours I get the typical readings I have posted above. I'd like to understand more about this.

I suppose it's possible that I have two males. I'll keep reading up on sexing them.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:13 AM   #12
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Hmm. Perhaps. I am no expert with this stuff. I can't remember off-hand the post I was looking for, but I am sure it is in this thread, Does Prime affect test results?

As for nitrates, do you have any nitrate-reducing media or are you adding anything to reduce it???

Try testing again. This time shake Bottle #2 extra well for a minute or so. If you don't shake it well enough it may give you false readings on nitrates.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:00 AM   #13
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I test regularly. At the very least every other day. I always shake bottle #2 but only for a few seconds. I will try shaking it for a lot longer. I suppose I could also have some bad reagents?

I will read that Prime link. Appreciate the feedback.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardynas
I test regularly. At the very least every other day. I always shake bottle #2 but only for a few seconds. I will try shaking it for a lot longer. I suppose I could also have some bad reagents?

I will read that Prime link. Appreciate the feedback.
You should be shaking the Bottle #2 really well. If you don't shake it enough I think the powder in there doesn't get active so it won't give out the right nitrate readings.

Also make sure you shake the whole solution for a full minute.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:24 AM   #15
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Wow... you nailed that one!
I shook it really hard and ran the Nitrate test. It's showing Nitrates now! Today is my (weekly) water change day. Also to clean filter as well.
I hope the nitrates aren't too high. Looks like I need at least a 50% PWC.
Thanks for solving this problem!

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Old 12-02-2011, 12:31 PM   #16
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Oh, boy! I'm second guessing what I was told about mine.
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:05 PM   #17
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Wow thats around 80 ppm nitrates!!!! That is definitely something to be worried about. I am surprised the GBR isn't dead yet, usually >40 kills them! Definitely do big PWCs to bring it down.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:25 PM   #18
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Yea, that's scary... didn't see that coming. Did a 50% change today and cleaned the filter (FX5). Vacuumed the gravel and added 5 capfulls of Prime. According to that link on Prime, I'll be reading false positives for 24 hours.

My tap water bothers me too. It's got Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates in it.
I'm literally putting Nitrates back into my tank with PWC's.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:28 PM   #19
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You should only clean canisters once every couple of months.

Regarding you tap conditions... I would consider maybe putting some plants i just there?

I dont know if prime detoxifies nitrate. And the false positive/negative thing only applies to ammonia, and from my experience usually isnt significant. As was said in the prime thread, to avoid false positives, dont let the test sit and read it when you're supposed to.
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:09 AM   #20
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I've got one of those Fluval polishing pads and some charcoal in my filter. I don't think either one is much good past 30 days. I like the idea of going two months so will likely leave out the pad and charcoal next time.
Agreed on the plants.

Now that I'm getting true readings on my Nitrates I can deal with this accordingly. Will do PWC's till I get stable. Looks like the Prime is keeping my fish alive according to their FAQ's (see below).
I need to determine if my tap water is working against me and need to arrange an alternate supply (R/O system).

Q: How does Prime make a difference in reducing Nitrates?

A: The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.
I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product.
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