Just Call Me BETTA KILLER!

[Larry Little]

Good morning all --

Well, My Betta Bungalow woes continue. 2 days after a 90% water change, the water has clouded up again and 2 of the bettas are badly fin-frayed. according to one article I read, they're showing classic signs of ammonia burn, but another article indicates fin rot. The ammonia levels are < .25, Nitrites are off the chart, and nitrates are @ 40. I've read so many conflicting articles about causations , medications, remedies, etc. that my brain has turned into chocolate pudding. I will, in all likelihood, lose these two fish at the very least.

Other than the cloudiness, the tank appears to be clean. The mystery snails (one per section) are doing their job. Plants are growing, though very slowly. I don't see any signs of uneaten food or other detritus.

Articles about medications are just as conflicting. One article says that Melafix is harmful to Anabantids; another article says not harmful at all, but better as prophylaxis. One article says use tetracycline; another says avoid using it because it will kill off the beneficial bacteria. Other articles promote any of various medications.

I need to go back to breeding cornsnakes.

 

[EOGoldfish]

It sounds like your tank isn't complete cycled yet. I'd keep doing daily water changes to keep the nitrites down

 

[abw0004]

Yep it is because your tank is not fully cycled. And once it cycles it then needs to stabilize. So keep doing daily 50% water changes and DO NOT use Melafix for Bettas. Fin Rot is due to poor water conditions and stress on the fish due to the ammonia so both of your observations are correct.

The best medication you will ever give a fish is clean water. Make sure you are using Seachem Prime specifically as your water conditioner. It helps the slime coat on your fish which helps repair fins and scales.

 

[Mebbid]

There's a couple steps to take to minimize the problems.

1 - Feed less: The less food going into the water, the less water quality issues you're going to have. Bettas are perfectly fine getting fed every other day.

2 - Water changes: Don't exceed a 50% water change, the changing water conditions above that % gets to be a bit much for fish. You can do a 50% change every 2 - 3 hours and you will be perfectly fine. Do this until the nitrites are down to around 0.25ppm.

3 - Test Daily: Daily testing and water changes will keep things from getting too extreme.

There's no need for medicine, it will just cause problems and waste money. Give the fish good water and they will be fine.

Are these 2 bettas in the same tank or different tanks? Divided?
What are you using for filtration?

 

[Larry Little]

When I got home a few minutes ago, I found one of the Bettas dead.

This tank has been up and running for just over three months; the clouding and fin shredding has been going on for only the last three weeks or so.

The tank is divided into three sections with each section having a bubbling sponge filter. the dividers are made from small gauge crochet mats. so water flow isn't impeded. The actual water volume is between 11.1 - 11.5 gallons.

Just checked the chemistry; ammonia is <0.25, nitrites are @ 2.0, nitrates are @ 10.

As I said in an earlier post and in this original one, I was doing 50%water changes weekly until the cloudiness began three weeks ago. since then, I've been doing 75% - 90% about every fourth day. Today is the third day and I can barely see the air hoses.

 

[coralbandit]

The cloudy water is bacterial imbalance..Time and as mentioned less feeding will help with that.
The nitrates are not acceptable, You can't have a schedule for water changes that allows your ammonia or nitrites to ever go over 1 ppm[I am higher then most and generous on this].As mentioned before you need to change water to reduce the nitrites .How you go about this is up to you but you really can't wait till later to get the nitrites reduced to acceptable levels and expect them to be ok..
50% till nitrites are .5 at the highest tonight if you want the other betta to have a chance.Everything else will work out when the STAYS good.

 

[Larry Little]

Thanks everyone --

I'm going to do the water changes as suggested, but I do have a couple of questions.

A little background; I wrote my Master's thesis on aquarium maintenance and display techniques for public and private aquaria (but it was 37 years ago), so I know about both Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter bacteria.

My question is this; If my NH3/NH4 is < 0.25, but my nitrite level is >2.0, doesn't that indicate that the Nitrosomonas are converting the ammonia? Similarly, if I'm having high nitrate readings >20, then the Nitrobacters are fixing nitrites, but not at a rate to offset the nitrites?

This seems to indicate two things to me:
1. The nitrogen fixing bacteria are out of balance. Would there be something inhibiting the Nitrobacter population?
2. If the nitrate number is high with live plants in the tank, what might be inhibiting the plants from utilizing the nitrates? Should I think about adding more mature live plants (water sprite or wisteria maybe)?

I have two large aquariums set up (65 and 39 gallon, both of which are heavily planted) and they are testing almost perfectly. I set up all three of my tanks at roughly the same time. The only differences are the Betta tank does not have an outside filter and it contains mostly immature tissue culture plants.

I'll be interested to know what you all think.

 

[abw0004]

Small tanks are a lot different from large tanks. Large tanks are more stable and cycle different. Your small tank's parameters are going to take longer.

 

[Mebbid]

With the age of this tank, it's hard to tell exactly what the root cause of your problems are. Barring replacement of the filters or over cleaning you should not be experiencing a mini cycle. My only thought on it is that your pH could be the culprit as nitrifying bacteria slow down greatly the closer you get to 6.4. What is the pH and dkH of the water in the tank?

But in any case, nitrobacter grow much slower than nitrosomonas which in itself creates the bacterial imbalance.

Lastly, it's rare that any tank's nitrate level can be controlled with only plants. Mostly, the nitrate production far outpaces the plant's ability to consume it. There are things that can be done to help such as stronger lights, more plants, fertilizer addition, and carbon supplementation.

 

[Larry Little]

This evening I have done a 90% water change since I'd already medicated the tank with the Melafix previously. Post-change numbers are as follows:

NH3 - 0.5
Nitrite - 0.25
Nitrate - 5.0

I used the Stress Coat I have on hand; it states that it "removes chlorine, chloramines, and heavy metals". I also recharged with the API Quick Start.

The two remaining Bettas are hanging in there; one is acting fairly normal, the other is in hiding.

If I could figure out how to put up pictures from my phone, I'd show y'all what it looks like without cloudiness. My electronics skills are definitely not my strong suit.

 

[abw0004]

Just make sure not to dose with Melafix