Let's talk about hard water

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MartinBlank

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
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Minnesota
Ok, so up here in Minnesota, it is very common for the cold water to be plumbed as to not be softened (as is the case in my house). I actually prefer the taste of hard water so I am not looking to switch this.

Since I didn't use hot water when initially filling my tank (and obviously not when I am doing water changes) the water in my tank is hard and my PH is also quite high.

I didn't appreciate this quite as much as I should have and more than a few cardinal tetras have died. I have since gone the livebearer route with some hardier tetras.

So my current tank is in place and I have adjusted (livebearers instead of delicate tetras etc.. and actually I love my platys)

My main question is any future tanks. What are my options? Buying water at the store? I have read that RO/DI water is a no-no for freshwater tanks, especially if they are planted.

So if I ever want to switch up this tank (or add a tank), am I going to have to stick to hardwater species (african cichlids perhaps) or is there something else I am not thinking of?

I really don't want to mess with PH buffers / chemicals / peat moss etc because of the PH swings. To be frank if I need to stick to hard water fish than so be it. Was more wondering if I was just not aware of another option.

Thanks
 
You can mix ro/di water and your tap to get any KH/GH that you want. What is the current hardness? Cardinals are wild caught and much more sensitive, most tank raised fish are quite adaptable.
 
Eeek. That seems like you would have to be pretty precise as far as mixing to achieve a specific hardness / PH level (and the cost of investing in RO/DI for freshwater as well)
 
My PH is a bit over 8. I don't know my hardness level (I know I probably should).

And this wasn't a matter of the cardinals going in and dying within 24-48 hours. They would be fine for 3 weeks or more, then slowly start dying off. I would lose 1 to 3 a week until they were basically all gone. So not sure if that is acclimization or if the environment of my tank just doesn't suit them.

I have a single little survivor left that I honestly don't know what to do with. I don't want to add more, but I know he probably isn't the happiest little guy. He has been by himself in there for probably a couple months now.

I have a large school of glowlight tetras, a group of cherry barbs, a large group of cory cats and the aforementioned platys that are all doing quite well.

I am not bemoaning my fate as I know my choices when it comes to fish are hardly restrictive. It was more just wondering that if I get it into my head to create some sort of Amazon biotope (for example... don't worry, I don't ) if there is any other options than RO/DI basically :)
 
Ok I am back, with some corrections to some bad information.

I did some more checking, and it turns out that the water I use to fill my does, indeed, flow through the softener (both hot and cold) and that only our kitchen sink cold water is not softened.

So, this leads me to believe that:

a. my water softener is not softening as much as it should
b. somehow my water is soft with a high PH
c. I did my PH test at a time when I was low on salt in the softener or something (I will re-do them tonight)
d. I just screwed up my PH test

I am guessing A (with a possibility of C or D).

My initial fill was from the outside hose (I did not have my python yet) so that was almost definitely hard water. Now that was over a year ago so with weekly water changes that water is long gone. As I said my water that is used for water changes (basement bathroom sink) does flow through the water softener, yet last time I did a PH test it tested over 8 (I will test again tonight).

So I need to get the API GH / KH testing kit obviously. That is a certainty.

So IF my softener has not been properly softening water (for an indeterminate amount of time), and I get the issue corrected so it IS softening water properly... Do I need to worry about a PH swing? Or will the gradual introduction to the properly softened water (via the 20-30% water changes I do weekly) be enough to ease the fish into the change? Should I change less water weekly for some period of time?
 
Hey it's me already. So yet again I am getting an education that I should have gotten a long time ago :)

So another possibility is my water is being softened without issue and my gh appropriate 0, but my kh is high (thus the high ph levels).

If that is the case, the water softener is doing its job, and I will just have to deal with having a higher ph.

The bottom line is that I need to get a proper test kit instead of basing everything off the ph readings.
 
Ok, curiouser and curiouser.

I redid the pH test on both my tanks (I have a 75 community and 5 gallon betta).

Both tested out at around 8.3 pH (I know, right?)

I tested the water right out of the tap that is used to fill the 75. pH significantly lower, like 7.6 range.

Now I know that after water sits out a while, the pH can change. But how drastically? And does it usually change upwards towards alkalinity?

I filled a beaker with water and left it to sit for 24 hours and will test again tonight.

So either my water grows more alkaline as it "settles", or there is something in both my tanks that is pushing my pH up.

My tank in the basement does have some rocks (all smooth river rock). Anything iffy I tested with the Ammonia testing bottle #2 and no reactions. And my betta tank has no rocks at all.

My 75 has pool filter sand as a substrate. My betta tank has standard aquarium gravel.

Both tanks have those resin type aquarium decorations in them (75 a giant pirate ship, the betta tank a little castle). This is really the only thing both tanks have in common. But has anybody heard of aquarium decorations affecting pH like that? These are just standard decorations that you buy at PetCo or PetsMart.

Thanks all.
 
I don't know if it's different where you live but only cold water runs into houses then goes through your hot water heater to be heated. From there it goes through your and to your fixture and appliances. How has was the nitrate when the cardinals started dying maybe you didn't do a pwc when it was needed.
Some gravel and rocks can buffer with the hardness. I know my gravel does it even says it right on the bag
 
Always when the cardinals started dying I would always test the water. It was always 0 for ammonia and nitrites and around 15 for the nitrates. I purposely waited until the tank was "established" before adding the first cardinals. I do a 20-30% water change each weekend. *shrug*

And really right now I am just trying to explain the large difference between the water in my aquariums and the tap water. If it was just the 75 I would understand it better, but the betta tank also having such a high pH puzzles me.

The betta tank has in it aquarium gravel, a fake plastic plant, a resin type aquarium decoration castle, and a live java fern in it. And the betta of course. Just don't know what out of that would be buffering the water. I guess we'll see what the water tests at after sitting for 24 hours.

Another question though:
When I do my water changes in the 75 I use a python. So the water doesn't sit out, so the water going in is at a lower pH than the water that is in there. That a major concern? I guess if it were a major concern I would be losing fish.... Is it a minor concern? :) Though in the end there is not much I can do about it (letting 20 gallons of water sit out for 24 hours and then heating it to 79 degrees before adding it to the tank every weekend... just not happening sorry...)

So I read that fish waste / dead plants etc can affect pH levels. But in what direction? That is one thing they never say.
 
Well i have no idea either my gravel bag just says buffers lol and I don't know enough yet to tell you. I tested my tap water the other day and found my ph to be rather high like 8 close to 9. This was without my dechlorinator. But my tanks are 7.5 and basically 7
 
Not an expert but maybe the gravel in the betta tank is increasing the ph did you try pouring vinegar over them to see if there was a reaction?
 
Well one mystery solved. After sitting out for 24 hours my tap water tested at a 8.2 in the pH department, considering my tanks are testing at roughly an 8.3 I would venture that nothing in my tank is significantly affecting my pH.

So this is a good thing. So my gH / kH test kit arrives tonight, so I can see if my water softener is doing its job (and properly lowering my gH) or if that is on the fritz.
 
Your adding softener but don't know how hard your water is?
 
No, I own a water softener (it came with the house). I haven't noticed rampant hard water stains on my shower / lack of sudsy-ness when washing my hair etc so always assumed it was working properly. The fact that the pH from my tap (or becomes so high) is so high just makes me question that fact and think that perhaps it isn't softening it as much as it should be is all.
 
Ok, I think we can call this chapter closed. Or at least mystery solved.

gH tested at basically 0.
kH tested off the dang charts.

This at least means that my home water softener is doing its job and softening the water. But since kH isn't affected by a home water softener, it remains extremely high (along with my pH)

*shrug* At least I know what is going on now...
 
Ok, so this brings me to another question (sorry, it seems neverending)

I am in the midst of wanting to switch to a planted tank. I am reading now in places that you want at least some gH for your plants...? So do I want to use something like Seachem Equilibrium to bring my gH up a bit if I want plants?

Feeling like I should just build an African Cichlid tank and be done with it :p
 
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