Lets talk about "Overfeeding"

[CleverBs]

I just wanted to see other peoples views on "Overfeeding"

I dont understand why people think its a bad thing. I personally think most fish dont get fed enough. I have always fed my fish 2-3 times per day. I think this makes your fish healthier and by just doing a larger water change you makeup for it.

The benefits of really fat fish outweigh any of the negatives of heavy feeding. Freshwater fish spawn more, they are happier and hardier, they look better and grow much faster.

I started doing this after I started saltwater because the fish always looked so skinny compared to the fish you see diving in the ocean. For example yellow tangs in peoples tanks look like they are starving compared to the ones you see in the ocean becaues they look like little pigs.

what do you all think?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Unfortunately lots of people use feeding as a means to control nitrogenous waste.

Test your fish food. In a series of equal tests (weight of food/water volume)
I managed to record levels of TAN as high as 4ppm.

Test conducted with all things being equal, temp, humidity etc. etc.

So, I'll start with that!

As far as I'm aware, once basic metabolic function has been addressed, fish use excess energy for growth, so over feeding would make them grow better/faster/healthier.

I feed my fish irregular, somedays they get lots, some days they get nothing.
Pond people do the same thing over winter. I think it's more natural.

 

[JoyToTheFishes]

One of my biggest issues as a new fish owner was that I was horribly over feeding.

It wasn't that the fish were eating too much, but that the food they didn't consume would sit and decay, quickly.

 

[PoppaRyno]

Is there no worry of bloat?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[J.Mcpeak]

One of my biggest issues as a new fish owner was that I was horribly over feeding.

It wasn't that the fish were eating too much, but that the food they didn't consume would sit and decay, quickly.

That's a different type of over feeding!
Feed only what they can consume.

(Then feed them that amount again)

Having fish that feed from different levels can help combat this, but it doesn't work for odd ball or specimen tank, trying to feed one fish is much more difficult compared to a tankfull!

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Is there no worry of bloat?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

Never had it so I'm saying no!

 

[ImACoolguy]

I don't worry too much about over feeding. I feed once daily except discus get fed twice a day.

The only tank I really limit feeding is my reef tank and that is due obviously to control waste. Feeding as minimal you as possible but still making sure they are fed and healthy. Controlling nutrients is much more important in reef tanks than others.

My other tanks I don't care if some hits the floor I have fish to clean it up and water changes.


Caleb

 

[ScotJudd]

There's a huge difference between over feeding the fish and over feeding the tank. Well fed fish are healthier and grow at a better rate but too much unconsumed food in the tank is asking for trouble.
If I can't be at the tank for a full five minutes to ensure that I haven't over fed then I just put in a minimum amount of food.
I also think most freshwater tanks benefit from a 'no food day' once a week.


Sent from my iPad in West Yorkshire, U.K.

 

[coralbandit]

I think over feeding is a problem most have whether they know or admit it.
I have marine predators that do well being fed 1-2 times a week.
I feed my fry as much as I can while keeping healthy water.
All out eating may make fish grow faster and 'appearently 'healthier but let time tell the whole story.
Faster metabolism and growth can just be life accelerated(bad pitch for the army years ago!) so I don't know if a line in the sand needs to be drawn?
I certainly can clearly see the effect of overfeeding my dogs,so I really mind my fish also!
Some of my fish are 15 years old , and they look hungry!
They all always look hungry!

Over feeding large fish is going to be a HUGE water quality issue you will grow tired of dealing with in years to come IMO.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Some of my fish are 15 years old , and they look hungry!
They all always look hungry!

Over feeding large fish is going to be a HUGE water quality issue you will grow tired of dealing with in years to come IMO.

Clown loach by any chance? Them things always seem half starved!
While I've highlighted this caption it's also true what you say about the predator fish. My bichir when small were fed daily but 2-3 times per week was normal for larger fish, some big predators can easily do a week or more!

 

[coralbandit]

They are clown loaches, all 11 of them!

I guess I should have thought to mention size of fish matters IMO.
Larger fish can go longer without food.

I agree with Scot That feeding less is safer in most cases then 'overfeeding'.

I don't try to manage my water quality through my feeding habit but it is a very useful tool if you know you can't do you proper maintenance.

 

[Brookster123]

They are clown loaches, all 11 of them!

I guess I should have thought to mention size of fish matters IMO.
Larger fish can go longer without food.

I agree with Scot That feeding less is safer in most cases then 'overfeeding'.

I don't try to manage my water quality through my feeding habit but it is a very useful tool if you know you can't do you proper maintenance.

Im.with bandit, i believe power feeding younger fish is needed, proper nutrition in the formative months will certainly yield a healthier fish.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[CleverBs]

I think over feeding is a problem most have whether they know or admit it.
I have marine predators that do well being fed 1-2 times a week.
I feed my fry as much as I can while keeping healthy water.
All out eating may make fish grow faster and 'appearently 'healthier but let time tell the whole story.
Faster metabolism and growth can just be life accelerated(bad pitch for the army years ago!) so I don't know if a line in the sand needs to be drawn?
I certainly can clearly see the effect of overfeeding my dogs,so I really mind my fish also!
Some of my fish are 15 years old , and they look hungry!
They all always look hungry!

Over feeding large fish is going to be a HUGE water quality issue you will grow tired of dealing with in years to come IMO.

Why would you think that fish eating alot is "Appearently" Healthier? fish in the wild dont stop eating. Fish dont just swim around all day for fun they hunt and eat all day. I dont know why people think that fish not getting food for a day is some how good for them. In the wild its not like a fish has a day where it just couldnt get any food.

take a look at this:

Here is a picture of a group of yellow tangs in the wild.
http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1139/4725328482_44749ac970_z.jpg

Here is a typical picture of a yellow tang in an aquarium
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/171/416429292_a8ff0b8b72_z.jpg

Now I get that some people may have some nice cubby yellow tangs in their tank but the only ones I have ever seen that look anything like the ones in the wild are at my LFS in a display Reef tank that has a morish idol in it and they feed the tank 3-5 times a day every fish in the tank looks just like they look in the ocean.

another tank a saw that had really nice fat fish is a buy whos in the local club here who has a reef tank with an auto feeder. his auto feeder thaws and feeds 2 frozen cubes every 2 hours during the day. He doesnt have water quality issues because he has proper flow and good filtration. The same can apply for freshwater tanks. Proper flow to keep the food up and the proper fish will make it so food is all consumed

 

[J.Mcpeak]

A quick point for clever b.

Feeding frozen is inherently better for your water quality.
In my tests I concluded that, even 10 times the weight of frozen food yields only trace amounts of ammonia, by comparison to dry stock it really is a no brainier, my fish eat frozen first and formost, this is backed up by quality flake and granule blends.

Water flow doesn't do much for water quality? Unless you're at extremes!
(Some dead spots are actually beneficial to the system as a whole)
-think anaerobic process

@coral bandit, (regarding food/nitrate control)
Yeah baby, that is a good tool to employ only in certain circumstances, but I'm right there with ya on that one! (And the age/size thing, larger fish definitely do not need 5 feeds a day!)

Now, I also agree with the fish foraging all day element of cb's last point.
It is true some fish do, but it is also true that some fish can't find food or choose not to, and hunt as they need to.

Tangs, don't they crunch on polyps all day? Or algae.
They can afford to casually graze on the banks of a reef!

Here's where we start to diversify, to say feed fish this way (think all they can eat in a minute garb) is gross generalisation, at genus level you can start to group feeding habits but even that is no hard and fast ruling, quite a lot of species feed in a much different manner to there close relatives.

Now, about fish not eating for a day, get a bichir, try feeding that everyday, while it is young, yes it will eat more than once per day, grow it out a bit, then you'll find rotting fish or feeders still swimming about.
When such fish are left to there own devices they only eat 2-3 times per week, they are not gluttonous in an abundance of food, they just take what they need when they feel they need it.

 

[BillD]

Studies done for the aquaculture industry have determined that a reduction of 70% from optimal feeding will still allow for growth and decent health. The growth will, of course, be much slower. Other factors will affect growth besides the food. Clean water is essential to rapid growth. It may be even more important than a quality food. Food itself can be an issue. Modern production/extrusion techniques allow for digestible carbohydrates to survive the processing. Older methods rendered the carbs indigestible. Carbs cause fatty livers.
So, while my experience is less than some others, I have made some observations When raising angel fry, you couldn't overfeed as long as you kept the water clean by doing large daily water changes. Missing a water change or two caused visible problems such as square off fins. Every spring I have a 3 to 6 week period where I keep live food, in the form of daphnia and assorted aquatic insect larvae, in front of my fish 24/7. The growth rate during this time is exponentially greater than any other time of the year. Even mbuna thrive with this.Keep in mind that live and frozen foods are almost 90% water so you have to feed much more (by volume) than dried food, which has, typically, 10% or less moisture content.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Bill, that's a very interesting point you make.
Maybe that's a reason as to why you can't positively test for TAN in frozen vs dry stock.

I'll agree with the need for clean water but again, high nitrate is a breeding trigger in more than one species of fish. So I think it's essential to follow nature at home with regard to annual fluctuations in water quality.

(Clown loach are obviously ready to breed in less than perfect water conditions, let things slide for a week or two and you'll see activity you've never seen before!)

Again though, your point about less than perfect conditions causing problems with angels reinforces the point about all fish being different.

 

[CleverBs]

A quick point for clever b.

Feeding frozen is inherently better for your water quality.
In my tests I concluded that, even 10 times the weight of frozen food yields only trace amounts of ammonia, by comparison to dry stock it really is a no brainier, my fish eat frozen first and formost, this is backed up by quality flake and granule blends.

Water flow doesn't do much for water quality? Unless you're at extremes!
(Some dead spots are actually beneficial to the system as a whole)
-think anaerobic process

@coral bandit, (regarding food/nitrate control)
Yeah baby, that is a good tool to employ only in certain circumstances, but I'm right there with ya on that one! (And the age/size thing, larger fish definitely do not need 5 feeds a day!)

Now, I also agree with the fish foraging all day element of cb's last point.
It is true some fish do, but it is also true that some fish can't find food or choose not to, and hunt as they need to.

Tangs, don't they crunch on polyps all day? Or algae.
They can afford to casually graze on the banks of a reef!

Here's where we start to diversify, to say feed fish this way (think all they can eat in a minute garb) is gross generalisation, at genus level you can start to group feeding habits but even that is no hard and fast ruling, quite a lot of species feed in a much different manner to there close relatives.

Now, about fish not eating for a day, get a bichir, try feeding that everyday, while it is young, yes it will eat more than once per day, grow it out a bit, then you'll find rotting fish or feeders still swimming about.
When such fish are left to there own devices they only eat 2-3 times per week, they are not gluttonous in an abundance of food, they just take what they need when they feel they need it.

tangs eat algae so yes they can graze all day long however the same is said for many lake fish. Walleye sit in one spot over a natural hump on the bottom and wait for things to come over it and they snag it. They do this all day long.

I agree some pred fish do not eat every day. I had a 30" snowflake eel in a sw tank and he would only eat about 3 times a week however when he ate he ate a LOT I would just keep feeding him silver siders till he wouldnt take anymore.

 

[coralbandit]

I think Marine herbivores and Freshwater carnivores are completely different fish.
I have been assuming most of these threads are orientated towards your plans for the 220?
Actually the marine predator I 'starve' is a snowflake moray maybe 2-3 years in my 120g now.
It was no larger then a pencil.
All of 2-3 feet now .
He eats cocktail shrimp,along Mr .Miniautus grouper who I feel I stunted better but still Is a beast at 8-10 inches.

Part of controlling a fishes intake(large fish) IMO is to control the size the fish achieves while still keeping them healthy as long as possible.
This allows us to keep them longer in our glassboxes.

If you feed your future arowana(one of my all time favorite fish ,along with marine betta) as much as it wants you will not be keeping him in a tiny box as long as you may like(ask me how I know).

 

[Gillie]

Man, you guys are being way too thorough, there's nothing for me to really add lol.

 

[CleverBs]

I think Marine herbivores and Freshwater carnivores are completely different fish.
I have been assuming most of these threads are orientated towards your plans for the 220?
Actually the marine predator I 'starve' is a snowflake moray maybe 2-3 years in my 120g now.
It was no larger then a pencil.
All of 2-3 feet now .
He eats cocktail shrimp,along Mr .Miniautus grouper who I feel I stunted better but still Is a beast at 8-10 inches.

Part of controlling a fishes intake(large fish) IMO is to control the size the fish achieves while still keeping them healthy as long as possible.
This allows us to keep them longer in our glassboxes.

If you feed your future arowana(one of my all time favorite fish ,along with marine betta) as much as it wants you will not be keeping him in a tiny box as long as you may like(ask me how I know).

This one doesnt have anything to do with my 220g I just keep reading threads of people saying that they dont want to over feed and things like that. So I thought lets make a thread about overfeeding and people can read it and see peoples thoughts on the whole thing.


I will power feed my arrowana untill hes about 18" then ill cut the power feeding and make sure he is just fat and healthy, I dont want this to get on the subject of that however because its not really about that.


Imo people confuse what overfeeding really is and how much it takes to "overfeed" the tank especially in freshwater. Saltwater reefs are a different story however you have the benefit of a potienskimmer and intense flow through the display in a saltwater tank that helps alot with food waste.