Losing the ammonia battle. Help.

[Delapool]

Just a note - there are a few cases with ammonia being 5 or 8 and fish doing fine surprisingly. I second a check at lfs but if tap is 0 the test could be correct.

Not sure if low temp is helping fish - will have to check. Certainly 18c or 65F would I think slow down cycling.

 

[fishywishywowoo]

Yeah ive read low temp would slow down cycle slightly but not much room to increase with the loaches. Ill take some to lfs as soon as I can. Will continue with daily pwc and hopefully will cycle soon

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[threnjen]

The pH is neutral and the temperature is very low, so I'm actually not surprised that the fish are doing all right.

We like to see it less (a lot, lot less) for safety however, so you should really be doing water changes every day until it cycles.

It's taking a while to cycle because of the low temp, but it will get there.

 

[threnjen]

At 7.2 pH and 18C and 8ppm on the test, the actual harmful ammonia in the system is .0432ppm. This is a level that can be locked down by Prime. But be sure to dose Prime every day if you miss a water change.

.05 harmful ammonia is the level deemed imminently dangerous. You want to aim to keep the harmful ammonia under .02. That happens at a reading of 3.7ppm on your test kit if your pH and temp remain the same. Try to keep it under that (3.7 on your API test), plus use Prime to detoxify it and make it safe.

When I say this, I mean that 3.7ppm is the absolute maximum it should reach on your test card. I would aim to keep it at 2ppm or less.

This recommendation would change were your temperature to increase, as your ammonia level would become more toxic to your fish. So don't raise the temp.

 

[Delapool]

Thanks! Did the temp make much difference? I'm just too lazy to look it up tonight out of curiosity.

 

[threnjen]

Yeah here's my favorite chart:
Calculating The Toxicity Of Ammonia In Freshwater - Tropical Discussion - Tropical Fish Forums
I like that article because it also explains how it works very succinctly.
It requires you to do math, you get the factor by looking up your temp and pH on the chart and then multiply your factor by the PPM you read on the API test.

It's helpful that it's a function of both pH and temp, this is why Op's fish are doing ok.

 

[Delapool]

Wow temp has made a difference. I wonder how that works - it just seems a steady trend.

 

[Caliban07]

I would be worried about the nitrite stage of the cycle. It's going to be unpredictable so water changes are a must.

 

[Caliban07]

Also op the only thing you did wrong was add too many fish. There is nothing wrong with doing a fish in cycle if done correctly.

 

[threnjen]

I would be worried about the nitrite stage of the cycle. It's going to be unpredictable so water changes are a must.

Agree 100% (obvy), you cannot have ammonia levels at 8ppm when you begin the nitrite phase or your fish will probably die at that point. As soon as you start getting nitrites the game is going to change as those are worse than ammonia and there isn't as reliable a way to detox (although some solutions exist)

Prime does claim to detox nitrites, but I am not sure how it works.

 

[Caliban07]

Agree 100% (obvy), you cannot have ammonia levels at 8ppm when you begin the nitrite phase or your fish will probably die at that point. As soon as you start getting nitrites the game is going to change as those are worse than ammonia and there isn't as reliable a way to detox (although some solutions exist)

Prime does claim to detox nitrites, but I am not sure how it works.

Me neither. Gotta trust them I guess. Probs just has lots of salt in it. Lol

 

[Delapool]

Lol - API nitra zorb or others could be worth looking up. I had the nitrite spike very high around top of charts. All fish survived well but I had a suspicion it weakened them, could be just over thinking it though.

 

[Caliban07]

Lol - API nitra zorb or others could be worth looking up. I had the nitrite spike very high around top of charts. All fish survived well but I had a suspicion it weakened them, could be just over thinking it though.

You mean they survived because of the chemical?

 

[Delapool]

You mean they survived because of the chemical?

I used the nitra-zorb for a QT and seemed to help.

The nitrite spike I had in the main tank, I just did water changes but it still went very high - especially when I went away for a few days. I didn't know about nitra zorb or other products then and forgot about salt so they kind of survived despite my lack of care. Without the test I would never have known. I've seen neons get sulky with a bit of ammonia but this was way past that. Weird. So there could be hope all will do ok

 

[fishywishywowoo]

Well today marginally better. Ph 6.6, ammonia 4.0, nitrite 0, nitrate about 2.0. Temp still 18 degree cel. Pwc done again. Fish still happy and healthy. Ammonia lock used. Thanks for all advice guys

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[libertybelle]

Well today marginally better. Ph 6.6, ammonia 4.0, nitrite 0, nitrate about 2.0. Temp still 18 degree cel. Pwc done again. Fish still happy and healthy. Ammonia lock used. Thanks for all advice guys

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Sounds like you're on your way. Just don't forget to keep using that ammonia lock until it comes down the rest of the way!

 

[Caliban07]

Well today marginally better. Ph 6.6, ammonia 4.0, nitrite 0, nitrate about 2.0. Temp still 18 degree cel. Pwc done again. Fish still happy and healthy. Ammonia lock used. Thanks for all advice guys

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I think you still need to do some partial water changes to get ammonia down. Your ph seems to be decreasing probably due to the acids produced and alkalinity used from the nitrification process on such high ammonia.

 

[Caliban07]

I used the nitra-zorb for a QT and seemed to help.

The nitrite spike I had in the main tank, I just did water changes but it still went very high - especially when I went away for a few days. I didn't know about nitra zorb or other products then and forgot about salt so they kind of survived despite my lack of care. Without the test I would never have known. I've seen neons get sulky with a bit of ammonia but this was way past that. Weird. So there could be hope all will do ok

Well I do have some thoughts on the effects of nitrite on our fish but it would be foolish of me to share them here as they are not conclusive based should not be taken as fact and could lead to misinterpretation.

 

[Delapool]

Maybe a disclaimer at front - very curious now!

I do wonder what the difference is between prime and other water conditioners where prime can handle the nitrite somehow. They all sound about the same and I would have assumed from a business point that you wouldn't add extra to a product unless covered by marketing. I'm starting to see prime show up in lfs here - will have to check out the label.

 

[threnjen]

Well I do have some thoughts on the effects of nitrite on our fish but it would be foolish of me to share them here as they are not conclusive based should not be taken as fact and could lead to misinterpretation.

Psst start a casual thread about it in the Off-Topic Aquaria thread because you KNOW I want to hear about it