More Murky Water Questions

[debbieg]

Hi,

I need help please. I've read several posts concerning this topic, but none of them answer all of my questions.

My son aquired a 55 gallon aquarium as part of one of his trades about 7 months ago. It has two Regent filter units on the back of the tank. Each of these filter units holds two 2260 replacement filters. I've gradually added fish, and have become completely captivated by this thing.

The problems:
I cleaned the tank 3 days ago, including a 30% water change.
The ph was then 7.0
The water was slightly hazy, but just slightly.
Today the ph is 6.2; it drops like this within a couple of days every time I clean it.
The water doesn't really look dirty, but it isn't crystal clear. It has a slight yellow or green tint.
This tint has always existed in this tank, even when it had two fish in it.
A couple of my fish (one gourami and one barb) seem sluggish, and I'm worried about them.

The questions:
I want crystal clear water with as little maintenance as possible; what do I need to add or replace. I'm thinking of filters, but will do whatever it takes.
Do I have too many fish?
Do I need to test for anything other than the ph level?
Could the drop in ph level cause my fish to act sick?

I'd appreciate any help,
Thanks a bunch,
Debbie

55 gal.
5 Angels
2 Rainbow Sharks
2 Tiger Barbs
2 Dalmatian Mollys
2 Silver Dollars
3 Gouramis
3 Bosemani Rainbows
2 Dojo Loaches
2 Plecos

 

[Allivymar]

Yellowish tint huh. Is there any driftwood in the tank? Its the number one culprit for water tinted as you describe; its the tannins leaching into the water. Carbon will help remove it.

Sharp pH changes can be a problem as you suspect. Fish don't do well when the pH changes quickly. This may be due to the amount of fish in the tank; its pretty crowded. The more waste there is, the more acidic the water will become. Do know the silver dollars and the plecs (if common) will outgrow the tank. It also may be due to the driftwood (if there is any). The tannins acidify the water.

There isn't anything as minimal maintainance when it comes to fishtanks; keep in mind we are in charge of their entire environment and their health. Fresh clean water is needed on a regular basis; you'll find most of us water change at least once a week. With that many fish in that size tank, once a week would be minimum IMHO. Crystal clear water is not necessarily good water for fish to live in; many toxins are clear and can't be seen b the naked eye (ie: ammonia). If you haven't bought a Python tho, I suggest it. Its a siphon that attaches to the sink that can siphon and fill; no bucket carrying involved *grin*

And just to be thorough, what are the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels?

 

[debbieg]

Hi Allivymar,

No driftwood or live plants.

The silver dollars and plecs were among the first inhabitants, and they haven't grown any in 6 months. I'm glad you defined Python. I thought you were messing with me for a minute.

I will get a Python ordered today; and since I don't have the slightest idea what the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels are, I'll order testing supplies for that also.

Thanks again,
Debbie

 

[Allivymar]

Excellent When you get the tests do pop back and update us. And you'll LOVE the Python! You can get one for a good price at www.bigalsonline.com

Not sure about the water tint then...the tap water is clear? Before it goes into the tank I mean; sometimes greenish water is a sign of copper leaching from the pipes.

 

[BrianNY]

Hi Debbie. Regarding the yellow water, have you checked your lighting? As bulbs age they tend to become yellow. Also the glass on the canopy can become stained casting a yellow color. Just a thought .

The PH might be several issues. Ph stability is important to fish health. To understand what's occuring with your water, KH and GH readings are important. It would also be a good idea to get a PH reading right from the tap, and then another after the tap water has aged over night.

Let us know.

 

[tkos]

Perhaps this is an algae bloom in the tank. I have been fighting this in one of my tanks. Right after a water change everything looks great then it slowly gets hazy again. Plus a lot of free floating algae might end up depleating the buffer in the water pretty quick if the GH and KH were really low to begin with.

 

[debbieg]

Hi,

First I want to thank everyone who has offered advice so far. Second, I want to apologize because this is going to be a long message to try and address the questions and comments that you've sent.

1. The only things in the tank are gravels, artificial plants, and two of the new laser figurines.

2. The tap water is clear and the ph is 7.0.

3. I just got a new canopy(and bulb) in December. The hazy water was there before and after getting the new canopy.

4. From searching the internet, I also thought this might be algae bloom. I bought a product called AccuClear. It did nothing.

5. There isn't a lot of algae in the tank. I try very hard to keep it clean. The plants and figurines never feel slimy, and there's never anything floating in the tank.

6. The Python is incredible. Thanks for the tip.

7. Big Al's is great too. I checked the price at other places where I had been shopping, and they bet everyone else. Sorry for the commercial, but it's true.

8. The Tiger Barb that I was worried about rebounded and is fine now, but I lost my beautiful Pearl Gourami. He just quit eating and died. All of my other fish seem to be doing very well.

9. Right after a water change, allowing time for the bubbles to go away, the water is hazy. The best way that I can describe it is like if you drank a glass of milk and ran water into the dirty glass. By the next day, this haze takes on just the slightest yellow-green tint. After this, it never seems to worsen. I really want to be able to see my fish better and feel like they're not in danger. From 6 feet away, I can't even see the design of the background.

10. I also got a full test kit from Big Al's to get the other information that you might need to solve this puzzle. The tests were done two days after a 25% water change and about a week and a half after a very thorough cleaning.

PH - 6.2
KH - < 1
GH - Medium Hard
Chlorine - 0 ppm
Iron - 0 ppm
Ammonia - .25 ppm (.2%)
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Carbon Dioxide - > 40 ppm

Thanks again for the help,
Debbie

 

[AtodaJ]

Couple of observations I'll make:

Your KH is less than 1 which means you have little buffering capacity. That is allowing for the wide PH swing and should be addressed. Here is a link on water chemistry that addresses how to raise your KH levels.

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html

You are showing ammonia which tells me that your biological filter is having some trouble. When did you start this tank? You said you got it 7 months ago but does that mean its had at least 1 fish in it for the last 7 months?

When you "clean" the tank what exactly do you do? You aren't changing out all the filter media are you?

 

[Christmasfish]

Also take care with product sthat clear water..if it claims to clear a bacterial bloom, ,it will kill your media! Then you will be restarting a cycle with a bucketload of fish to lose!
Accu-clear takes about 2-3 days to work..but if your params are off it won't really do anything becuase the problem will re- instate itself even as the product fights to bind and sink it. With your population I doubt accuclear can do anything.

This is a clear, polymer cleaner that clumps the microscopic particles and drops them to the bottom of the pond where they are quickly removed by the filter system

Pearl..the quintenssential community gourami species is also sensitive to aggressives if they pick at it and may stop eating where it starves.
In crowded tanks with aggressives, some shy gourami are known to stay at the bottom and actually drown. More often they just starve. That is the problem with a gentler fish, if your community is a mixed bag. In a threesome if you had two males of any labyrinth fish, one male can batter the other to death and not even fray a fin to warn you. Even the gentlest types of labyrinth are hostile to other labyrinths in situations. They are also pretty good sized.
As your fish all approach adult sizes and breeding ages..you will see "unexpected" hostility because of territory issues. You rarely see adults mixed in the same way as juveniles, even at the raspiest, wretchedest PetCo kinda place. If they even have any adults.


Since no one asked...how much sunlight does your tank get in it's location? Any of it direct? This can make algae go to town! 8)

 

[jsoong]

I think the first thing to fix is the pH swing. With the low KH, there is no buffering capacity & basically we are seeing a pH crash just a few days after water change. Bad news for fish.

To raise the KH quickely, add NaHCO3 (AKA baking soda). For longer term, use crushed coral, crushed oyster shells & other carbonate containing things. Do read the KRIB FAQ atodaj posted. Under "water chemistry" you'll find instructions for doing this.

I do have to question the GH reading - Low KH & a pH of 6 should be associated with a relatively low GH - rathere than medium hard.

Also, ignore the CO2 reading. Most test kit uses a formular to calculate CO2 levels indirectedly - and the calculations are invalid with KH less than 1. Without added CO2, you should see atmospheric level of 3 ppm or so.

 

[Allivymar]

Just to add a little more info, as the folks have answered everything so well

Flocculants like accu-clear is a waste of money and time IMHO. For example, it claims to make the microscopic particles clump and fall to the bottom where the filter will pick it up. Erm...unless you are running a UGF, the filter doesn't pick stuff up from the bottom of the tank. Its why gravel vaccing is so important.

Which leads to my next question, do you gravel vac when you water change? How much of the bottom do you do? Oh! And I'm glad you find the Python as great as we do; awesome ain't it? As someone here said on a recent post, it was time to kick the bucket *grin*

I can see where Xmasfish is going with her sunlight question and its a good one *slaps self in head for not even thinking to ask!*; if the tint is greenish-yellow, its most probably an algae bloom. I have a bunch of pics from when my 55g went thru an algae bloom here; check and see if it resembles whats going on in your tank: http://www.myaquaria.com/gallery/algaebloom . I tried all the recommended safe treatments to rid my tank of it, except covering it for 5 entire days with NO light (not even uncovering for feeding; I couldn't do that with my mated angels who were in there). The thing that worked for me was a diatom filter.

 

[debbieg]

Boy y'all have been great, but I still have the problem. Let me answer some questions and ask some more.

1. It sounds like I need to add baking soda very carefully and test a lot. Do I also need to add additional baking soda with each water change?

2. My tank has had at least four fish in it for 6 or seven months.

3. When I clean the tank, I vacuum the gravels, change between 20 and 30 percent of the water, and rinse the carbon filters with tap water. I've replaced the carbon filters twice, thinking that might help the cloudiness.

4. My tank is near a set of French doors, but they are the kind with the blinds between the glass; and I never open the blinds. My children accuse me of living in a cave. If they come to see me on a bright day, they have to stop inside the front door to let their eyes adjust.

5. Thanks so much for the pics of the algae bloom, but sorry you had it. It looks a lot like what I have, but it's appears to much greener. Also, I couldn't be sure but it looked like surfaces in your tank were covered with algae. I don't have algae growing on anything in the tank, could the cloudiness still be algae bloom?

6. I was going to ask about adding bio-wheels to the current filter system, is this something that I need to do? I saw them mentioned when I first found this forum, and that's all I know about them.

7. Does a diatom filter replace what I have or should it be in addition to what I have? Do you use a diatom filter continuously or just when it's needed?

8. One more and I swear I'll quit. Does algae bloom harm the fish?

Thanks again
Debbie

 

[Allivymar]

LOL The more questions the better; tis what we are here for

Here's the website discussed earlier: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html . Check thru it for info on kH.

What sort of fish do you have?

The carbon filters are just not the right thing for removing algae blooms as you cn see. So no surprise it didn't work.

Heh, I was pretty sorry bout my algae bloom too. What a pain that was. And no, there was NO algae on any surface; it was all free floating in the water. Thats how green mine was; took 2 months of me farting around with other possible treatments to get that bad.

The biowheel will add a new surface for good bacteria to colonise, so if you remove all the filter media for example, because its gotten ratty, you have so much good bacteria there shouldn't be an nitrogenous waste spike.

A diatom filter could become the main filter, but I wouldn't recommend it. Its loud and powerful and would prob be too much for daily filtering needs. I got mine from Bigals, but you may want to see if anyone you know has one you can borrow, or if a lfs will rent you one (if you don't want to buy one). I only use mine when its needed, but some folks use it regular to polish their water.

Algae blooms won't hurt the fish persay. If its really really bad, it can affect oxygen levels tho, and if it all dies off at the same time, will mess up water parameters pretty badly.