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Old 07-22-2014, 04:16 PM   #1
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Need assist relative to N cycle

I fully cycled a 29gallon tank using 30 drops ammonia. Had about 3-4 days at zerro. Did a 100% water change and added plants & 4 fish ( 3 dannio & 1 emerald green "cory" ) a few hours later.

One week after adding the fish, I did a 1/3 PWC, testing water 1st, Ammonia was noted, which I guesstimated at .075.

I noticed a white flakey film on the air hoses, which I removed, which I now believe was some beneficial bacteria. And, I cleaned the foam intake sock in the old water.

I posted about the white flakey film and was advised to preform a GH & KH reading. So, I tested all parameters 48 hrs after the 1st PWC. During testing, I found I had 0.25 ammonia. I immediately did two 1/3 PWCs.

Today, 24hrs later, I've got slightly under .25 ammonia again. And, I just did a 1/3 PWC. ( photo shows ammonia b4 & after )

In the meantime, I'm using a python, so I put the dechlorinator in the water right before the python shoots the water into the tank. My 3 idiot dannios have decided they want to swim thru the water stream as it enters the tank and I'm worried about that, too, b/c the dechlor has not had time to react with the new water stream.

( Side note: I have 3, what were sold to me as sparkling gouramis in QT. in a QT tank. They are about 1/2" and haven't made any croaking sounds yet. )

Questions:
1. How many drops of ammonia should I have prep'd the 29 gallon tank with. 30 was obviously too few, b/c it didn't even equal 4 fish & plants.

2. When aquarium restabilizes, how many QT fish can be added over X amount of time? I'm guessing 1 per 4-7 days.

3. What do I do about the idiot dare devil dannios who find swimming thru the python water fun?

4. Any guesses how long it will take for the aquarium to restabilize?

5. A brown substance started growing on my plants. One fern in particular which I washed in H2O2 and returned to the tank. I was giving only 6 hrs light, but was running a red LED strip at night as a night light. What is the brown stuff? Brown algae from too much red light?Click image for larger version

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Filtration is Aqueon 50 HOB using biohome ultimate as biomedia and a sponge filter.


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Old 07-23-2014, 02:36 AM   #2
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I'll take a stab at this.

1. Have you tested the water coming out of your tap for ammonia? Mine tends to be a bit on the green side always. I have read that the test will pick up another form of ammonia and give a false low reading.

2. Have you tested your water for nitrite? Nitrate?

3. The brown spots I'm my opinion are def brown algae. They are also a sign that your tank may be fully cycled.

4. Don't worry about the danios swimming in the python flow mine have been doing it for almost 2 years. Chlorine poisoning takes a long time to effect fish from what I have read it is not an instant thing.

5. Use your best judgement when adding new fish from QT. If they are small fish you should be okay. Keep an eye on your tests and maybe do an extra water change or two until the bio filtration catches up to the load.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:02 AM   #3
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Need assist relative to N cycle

Thank you so much for answering!!!

1. Yes, tap water is all 0's and 7.4pH
( I recently read that I should super agitate or airate a sample of tap water to get it's true pH, that I haven't done but hope to do soon)

2. Nitrites 0, nitrates were 5 for 1st water change, 4 for 2nd water change and 2 for the last water change.

3,4,5 Thank you!!!
That is funny that your danios dare devil play, too! That was really worrying me.

The other thing I should have posted is that I feed them small cube of Repashy and let them graze for a few hours. Then, if I can find the remnant of the cube, I remove it.

Since my out of wack ammonia, I've given them only 30 minutes to eat and then remove the small cube. ( it was funny b/c I used a back scratcher yesterday and one of the danios kept chomping at the Repashy as I was trying to remove it. ).

Today's 7/23/2014 readings:
Ammonia .25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2
pH 8.1
(Color is a little off in the pic)Click image for larger version

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Getting python out for another PWC.


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Old 07-23-2014, 11:56 AM   #4
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Looks to me like you are still going through a cycle. My guess (although I have no actual proof to back it up) is that the 100% water change killed your cycle. it sounds kinda crazy but that is the only thing that really sticks out to me.

Keep an eye on the tests. Eventually the tank will cycle just be patient.
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Old 07-23-2014, 12:38 PM   #5
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Tank Cycling

Hello Monk...

If you cycle a 29 G tank with fish, you'll 6 to 8 hardy, small to medium sized fish to maintain a steady source of ammonia. You don't need the commercial stuff. That way doesn't provide a level amount of ammonia. Just go with the fish.

Once the fish are in, you use a liquid water testing kit and check daily for traces of ammonia or nitrite. If you have a positive test, you change out 25 percent of the water and replace that with pure, treated tap water.

Just test every day and change the water if needed. You can feed the fish a little every couple of days to keep them going. I'd suggest floating some Hornwort in there too. Helps steady the water chemistry. When several daily test show no trace of ammonia or nitrite. The tank is cycled. From this point on, you change half the water every week to maintain safe conditions for the fish and plants.

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Old 07-24-2014, 12:06 AM   #6
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Need assist relative to N cycle

Can't add the plants. Super allergic to shrimp ( mollusk cross reactor)
Here's my eyes from any contact with shrimp.
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Every plant in the tank right now was grown in QT for 4 months.

I treated plants with potassium permanganate, H2O2, and Clorox dip and those invisible snails survived. Right after I moved plants I only QT'd a couple weeks, but had triple treated I got snails in my tank. Had to strip it and run 2 hrs Clorox and boil everything boilable.

Petsmart or petco says theirs are snail free, but I would still have to QT the plants 45days.

But, thank you!!!

Thank you both!!! I checked tonight and my readings are good. Plus, the hoses have a very light coating of the white film again. I'll keep checking/testing morning and night but I think I'm out of the woods.

BTW. I think I might have rushed moving my 4 fish in. I thought I went 4 days with 0s, but I checked my timeline and it was more like 36hrs.


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Old 07-24-2014, 01:55 AM   #7
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Fishless Cycling a tank with ammonia requires a lot more than just a single dosage of ammonia. It's an entire process where you start your cycle and keep dosing daily when your ammonia level drops below 4ppm.

Your tank is only considered fully cycled when it processes 4ppm of ammonia directly into nitrate with no detectable nitrates within a single day. From my understanding you dosed once so began the process but in no way did you complete it. It looks like you're fish in cycling now.

I would assume your tank will stabilize within 2 weeks or so. Maybe a little more.

You can put a filter bag over the python with a rubber band to keep fish from swimming inside it.

The brown algae is diatoms and is common in a new aquarium. It feeds off of excess silicates in the tank. They eventually die out.

The plants sold in those plastic packages have never been exposed to any type of invertebrate. They are grown right inside those plastic packages so are perfectly safe for you to use.

It's a safe bet to add a few fish weekly to the tank as long as you're reading 0s on ammonia and nitrite.

I'm assuming you're using frozen food correct? If that's the case cut the cubes into smaller pieces and you won't have to worry about feeding too much.

Lastly, nitrite consuming bacteria takes longer to grow than ammonia consuming bacteria so you might want to monitor nitrite levels as well.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:58 AM   #8
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Need assist relative to N cycle

Mebbid, thank you for all the helpful info! ( one of the answers I was looking for, the 4ppm, is very very helpful for the future.) I did dose ammonia daily ( timeline photos below)

Curious, where did u get info plants are grown in the packages? I didn't read that on the packages, but my eyes were very bad the day I was looking at them.

I feed them Repashy, not frozen. But Repashy when made in bulk can be frozen. ( I wear a mask, gloves and goggles and change clothes after when I mix up the Repashy )


Mebbid, I dosed 30 drops for 45 days, dosing each time the test showed .25. So, at first it was about every few days, then it was daily 30 drops.

I used Dr. Tim's, and for the 1st time ( prolly b/c it was store bought and not from his website), his product did not kick in within a week. In fact, I ended up using 2 bottles ( both store bought). And, the tank took 35 days to make 30 drops go to 0 in 24 hrs ( pic 1).

His directions said to dose 1 drop ammonia / gallon every time ammonia dropped to .25, and that when 30 drops (~30 gallon, 1d/gallon) went to 0 ammonia in a 24hr period that the tank was fully cycled.Attachment 244296
I reached that objective on July 5th and I added the fish on July 13th ( So, I did in fact get all 0s daily for 8 days, each day adding 30 drops Ammonia)
Attachment 244300


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Old 07-24-2014, 12:03 PM   #9
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:05 PM   #10
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Need assist relative to N cycle

I tried Mebbid's sock suggestion on the last PWC and it works great. None of the danios got to go to Great America and play dare devil through the incoming water. Thanks, Mebbid!

I'm also trying 4 "snail free" purchases in a 5.5 gallon. Hopefully, I'll be able to get the plants suggested. Thank you, both, Bbradbury & Mebbid!!! I'll keep a lookout for hornwort.


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