Need help in determining what fish is the BULLY.?

[amyb_70]

Hi I am pretty new here and have only had my fish tank since May. I have a 20 gal long tank stocked with guppies, some differant tetras. ( snow, neon, danio, albino, black skirt and another small one the name isn't coming to me), I also HAD an angel fish, rosy red and rainbow fish. Anyway I have had issues keeping the guppies alive. 1st I thought it was something with the guppy make up as no other fish were dying. I knew it wasn't the store because I buy from 3-4 differant places. Couple days ago I noticed rosy chasing and being agressive toward them, so I moved her. All was good for 2 days then I found a guppy floating with both eyes missing. So I moved the rainbow as he's much larger ( common sense right), no wrong. Then I was told my young angel ( who tops was 1.5"). I traded her in for 2 guppies. Guess what - within 10 min an eye was missing. I'm hoping someone can give me a clue who the culprit may be. As I have listed what's in my tank, also have a couple sucker fish but was told they wouldn't be the bully. I'd like to hear your opinions asy tank is slowly turning into a guppy and neon tetra tank only.


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[Mattfinn]

What sort of sucker fish like Chinese algae eaters because yeah I can imagine them being an issue if you have them.


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[amyb_70]

Idk one looks like a catfish and I'm clueless what the other is. I've never seen either of them off the gravel. I'd have to google it


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[amyb_70]

well after posting 2 forums on this matter i am hoping that MATTFINN has found the culprit.. i googled it first thing this morning and guess what i have a chineese algae eater who is listed under one of the most aggressive fish... yup he will be brought in for a swap of something that is tame. this has really be3en a trial and error process for me. i have lost so many guppies and have been doing process of elimination, starting w/ a larger rosy red, then a rainbow, followed by a small angel (which i have been advised was a bad choice for my stock anyway), and some black skirt tetras and not the chineese alage eater.... my fingers are crossed... as i now have a poor guppy with only 1 eye... but shes still a beauty to me...
love my fish

 

[Mattfinn]

Yeah it's ok sorry about the fish you've lost. It annoys me that stores sell such aggressive fish under the name "sucker cats" when they're Chinese algae eaters and one of the most aggressive and large fish in the trade


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[amyb_70]

it was one of the first fish i got. when i realized it was a bully nothing made sense to me as all the fish i buy are not aggressive at all... any store that i have bought from all tell me a sucker fish is a sucker fish they are all the same... finally today when i took it to the family owned store the owner actually seemed to know what i was talking about... i never would have guessed an algae eater would or could do that... i have had this forum up and another for a couple weeks.. i am hoping that you hit the nail on the head.. as i feel bad going to that fish store bringing fish in. i feel foolish..problem now is finding an algae eater who wont eat my fish, who doesn't grow to big and i prefer something appealing to the eye.. the stores here do not have any info on the fish they sell, just the name and 1 store says if its live-bearer or egg layer. Walmart is the only store that gives info on the fish such as temperament, and size they grow to. But i tried Walmart fish and not happening, most all that i got from there died, but the ones i have that didn't die are super hardy. so its a hit/miss .... and im super excited the LFS (the family owned one) gets endlers in w/ their wild guppies and sell for 4.00 per dozen... I will definitely be going there on wed when shipment comes in... wish me luck... i will keep you posted and let you know if i have any more guppies getting bullied. id be interested in knowing a bit about what you have and how long you have been into this hobby.

 

[Mattfinn]

I don't live in America I'm from Australia but it's almost the same here with chain stores. Algae eating fish...Siamese algae eaters, oto cats or BN plec.
Siamese algae eaters will get to about 6 inches I believe and are ok flying solo and DO NOT attack other fish. Good for BBA I think and diatoms.

Oto cats need to be in a school of 5 are tiny about 2 inches, and purely eat diatoms algae. Are like a miniature herd of cows.

BN plec is one of the few plecs that won't get any bigger then 6 inches. Good for diatoms and just cleaning up in general. Very passive and good parents.

My favourite is the plec they are the most appealing aesthetically in my opinion but a lot of people prefer oto cats for smaller tanks.


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[Luananeko]

I would hesitate to say it's the algae eater... While yes, it may be a problem once its full grown, they usually go after slime coats when they're aggressive, not eyes.

How many of each species of tetras and danios do you have? Some danio and tetra species will tend to harass their tankmates if not kept in large enough schools. Zebra danios, for example, have been the culprits of several occasions of killing their tankmates when they had a particularly pushy member and/or don't have enough tank length and school members to burn their energy off on. It's like a Husky kept in an apartment, they go stir crazy and get destructive.

 

[amyb_70]

Mattfinn what's your opinion on a loach. Idk the name of it but it looks kind of like a snake with black and white sripes ( not length wise) lfs owner said they are peaceful and they will go right under the gravel and clean. . But I'm not buying until I do research. So what kind of tank do you have and what do you house?


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[amyb_70]

Louanamake it was a chineese alage fish. Lfs owner said being that my tank is so clean and no visual alage and recently got new plants that with the chineese ones especially this is not that uncommon. I told her what I house and she seems to feel the tetras are fine as I have schools all of them. Some school together such as black skirt, snow and painted. I will know within 2 days if were all wrong in pinpointing the Chinese alage fish. Problem has been from day 1 and that's one of the few originals I had left. Who do you think it would be


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[enrgizerbunny]

CAEs are known as a sucking loach. They come from fast flowing streams and use their suckers to hold onto rocks and such. They do eat algae when they are young, but as they grow older they will attack and kill fish, not just eat slime coat. Slow moving, broad sided fish are usually targets. I'm half tempted to get a CAE just to see how him and the rainbow shark would duke it out (my cash is on my rainbow), and euthanize the CAE regardless, but my kissing gourami would surely be harassed and I love that guy.

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[emilygupps]

I would hesitate to say it's the algae eater... While yes, it may be a problem once its full grown, they usually go after slime coats when they're aggressive, not eyes.

How many of each species of tetras and danios do you have? Some danio and tetra species will tend to harass their tankmates if not kept in large enough schools. Zebra danios, for example, have been the culprits of several occasions of killing their tankmates when they had a particularly pushy member and/or don't have enough tank length and school members to burn their energy off on. It's like a Husky kept in an apartment, they go stir crazy and get destructive.

That is the best explanation on huskies I've ever heard. Care to come to my work and give that lecture to the clients who show up with their $2500 puppy they bought from a puppymill store? Ugh.

I've seen the above behavior with my own danios. They weren't violent but they generally annoyed their tank mates. Bowling for rasboras any one??


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[amyb_70]

Enrgizerbunny, i see what you are saying. But do you really think its fair to either of them to suffer a fight just to see and then kill the CAE. if you are going to do that cant you at least bring it to a LFS and trade for something else. this is my personal opinion. but then again i dont believe in capturing any live animal to get fed to another animal and keep it captive. the fish has no way out. in nature its a challenge and i am sure they get many of fish or any other animal that is on the brink of death, making an easy capture as its slow and that animal will no longer suffer.. but to grab 10 fish to basically spend their final days swimming as fast as possible w/ no hope just seems inhumane to me.. i have an african albino dwarf frog and i promise you he wont get live fish, and probably wont get dead ones either.

 

[Mattfinn]

Mattfinn what's your opinion on a loach. Idk the name of it but it looks kind of like a snake with black and white sripes ( not length wise) lfs owner said they are peaceful and they will go right under the gravel and clean. . But I'm not buying until I do research. So what kind of tank do you have and what do you house?


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Sounds like a Kuhli loach they're cool but not a specific algae eater you'd have to do a fair bit of research on them. With their requirements I've never had them or seen them for sale. Research the fish before you but them.


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[Fresh2o]

Just curious, why do you feel that you need an algae eater? If you can return the CAE, perhaps you can just get store credit and use it for an algae magnet. Not intending to be a downer here, but I've skimmed this post and since you are trying to rule out bullies (which you probably have done with the CAE) and some fish have already died, adding more fish may not be the best thing to do until the situation stabilizes.

 

[Fresh2o]

Research the fish before you buy them.


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+1. It is best to do your homework beforehand (which includes posting your Q's here) because the folks selling the goods are selling the goods. Not all of them and I am not trying to generalize anyone on the retail end of the business.

 

[Luananeko]

That is the best explanation on huskies I've ever heard. Care to come to my work and give that lecture to the clients who show up with their $2500 puppy they bought from a puppymill store? Ugh.

I've seen the above behavior with my own danios. They weren't violent but they generally annoyed their tank mates. Bowling for rasboras any one??

Haha, thanks They're one of my favorite breeds, but they REALLY are not for the faint of heart... I've had Husky mixes from the shelter for half my life, and several of my friends have owned purebred Husky rescues. They definitely are a challenge to keep worn out and happy.

Anywho, back on topic... OP, like Mattfinn said, Khuli loaches are not algae eaters. They have fun personalities, but they need larger groups (8-10+) to feel confident enough to show their normal behavior. They also need sand and warmer temps (75F+).

If you're looking for a peaceful algae eater, get nerite snails or otos. Industrious little critters and LOVE their algae. The snails will scavenge leftover food if there's no algae available, but otos will tend to starve rather than accept veggie/algae wafer supplements.

 

[amyb_70]

I thought AE were necessary. Now I see they are not, especially for how often I am changing water. I don't plan on adding anything else and definitely won't until I research. I have learned a hard way? But have learned. Hopefully problem is resolved with the CAE now gone. You have all been very kind and helpful. I appreciate each and everyone of your comments and input in helping me resolve this. I will let you know how things go, having hopefully resolved and removed the bully.


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[Mattfinn]

No worries hope the tank stabilizes itself out ? I had a bully recently turns out she was just pregnant and taking it out on her other half.


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[enrgizerbunny]

Enrgizerbunny, i see what you are saying. But do you really think its fair to either of them to suffer a fight just to see and then kill the CAE. if you are going to do that cant you at least bring it to a LFS and trade for something else. this is my personal opinion. but then again i dont believe in capturing any live animal to get fed to another animal and keep it captive. the fish has no way out. in nature its a challenge and i am sure they get many of fish or any other animal that is on the brink of death, making an easy capture as its slow and that animal will no longer suffer.. but to grab 10 fish to basically spend their final days swimming as fast as possible w/ no hope just seems inhumane to me.. i have an african albino dwarf frog and i promise you he wont get live fish, and probably wont get dead ones either.

Well I'd be curious as to how a fish that's known to be aggressive and a shark that killed 10 of 14 tiger barbs would react, but I already have a BN pleco and I think the bottom would be a little full with a 3rd that tops out at 10 inches. I also want angels later.

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