NEED HELP TO ESTABLISH DEATH!! LOL

[Fishygirly]

Hi!
I had a goldfish in a BiOrb,[a brill sort of fishbowl], it stayed at the bottom, head down tail up and would budge from that posture. Then it died. Can anyone help me!
Tnx in advance

 

[tkos]

Are you looking for advice on why it died and what to do in the future?

How big is the bowl and how often did you change the water in it?

Goldfish produce tons of waste and in a bowl really need that water changed everyday.

 

[Fishygirly]

TNx

Hi!
Er, the bowl is huge, and I don't need to many water changes as it has a built in light, aeroter[can't spell it], and filter. Thanks 4 answering anyway.

 

[jsoong]

From my limited expereince - I would say you still needed to do water change. I have a 10 gallon tank with filter/airstone, and plant. During initial cycling, I needed to do a 30% water change every day just to keep the levels of ammonia & nitrite in check. (I had 2 small 1" fantails)

I doube if any gold fish bowl is as big as 10 gal, so the problem would be exponentially worse. Meanign even more frequent water changes.

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

my goldfish tank (10g) requires a water change 2 or sometimes 3 times a week to keep up with the amount of waste they produce (partly because i've pretty much maxed out the bioload (now if only I had room for a 30 gallon...hmm...)).

did you test the water at all? were there any marks on the fish? how long did you have it?

 

[Allivymar]

I went n checked out the BiOrbs. Awesome looking fish bowls, but with some caveats that are not mentioned.

I can't imagine where they got their stocking numbers; 30 liters is less then 10g. Its strongly recommended just about everywhere EACH goldfish be given about 10g each, especially when they are over 2 inches each. Goldies produce a HUGE amount of waste as sweets said; that amount of water is needed to simply deal with the load. Those pics they show of 3/4/5/6 etc goldies in one of those tanks is horribly misleading.

The other issue I see with them is oxygenation. The bubbles which glide thru the water column do NOT add O2 to the water; its the agitation of the water on the surface which promotes O2/CO2 exchange. The greater the surface area and the greater the agitation, the better the exchange. I see very little surface area in those tanks, plus I can't quite figure out how much air is getting TO the surface with that top. It looks to me they are more concerned with "coolness" then with the actual needs of the fish; shame really.

As for your poor goldie Fishygirl, I'm guessing his death was a combo of 2 things; ammonia poisoning and lack of oxygen. What happens is ammonia (which fish produce by digestion and respiration) burns the gills; the fish can't get enough oxygen. Combine that with the probable lowered oxygen levels in the tank and its a good bet he suffocated. I strongly suggest, if you haven't already, pick up an ammonia nitrite and nitrate tests so you can KNOW if there are waste poisons in your tank, and you can help your other fish be as healthy as possible by removing it. You may want to read up on the nitrogen cycle as its the KEY to a healthy tank; really nice article here all about it: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html . Also, theres a great goldfish specific site on the net: www.goldfishinfo.com

 

[Allivymar]

I was bothered enough by the BiOrb's advertising to throw an message to them off their website; I'll post it here for anyone whos interested in what I said:

Hi folks:

I'm a mod on one of the larger online aquarium forums. Someone had a question about your BiOrb tanks, so I came over to the website to check it out. I must say they are lovely, but I'm having a major problem with your stocking recommendations. While your tanks DO have almost 10x the amount of a standard 1g goldfish bowl, they are still much to small for more then one goldfish. The current opinion on goldies is they require 10g or around 40L EACH. The amount of waste they produce really demands it; smaller space means much higher concentrations of nitrogenous waste. Your claims of low maintainance seem paradoxical when one considers the number of water changes required to keep nitrogenous waste levels from becoming dangerous.

Plus goldfish get rather large. Even cheap feeders have been known to grow as large as 12" long over time; poor guys would never be able to lie straight in a BiOrb.

I'm also concerned about the surface area needed for O2 exchange; it appears very small unless the tank is only half full, and I am unclear as to how much fresh air is able to reach the surface due to that cover. I'm sure you folks are aware the air bubbling through the tanks does not add any appreciable amount to the O2 levels in the tank, and its the surface agitation which truly provides for O2/CO2 exchange.

I really hope you folks rethink your recommendations for the BiOrb; its a lovely looking tank, but appears to be very inappropriate for goldfish or any other fish which reaches over 2 inches in size and can live for over 2 decades when well taken care of.

 

[tkos]

Sounds like a great letter. Wouldn't it be nice if they actually listened?

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

Ha...did you see the page devoted to the feng shui of having goldfish?! Where it actually says you should have 3 fish in there to promote good luck?

I don't think dead fish are very lucky

 

[Allivymar]

Heh, I couldn't get past the pictures of all those goldfish stuffed into that tank. I saw the link to feng shui and KNEW I couldn't go there LOL

 

[Fishygirly]

The Fish also had little outgrowths on its body and its tail was threading.

 

[Allivymar]

Interesting Fishy. I think the terminology is a little diff here in the states; whats threading?

And what sort of outgrowths? Like tumors? Or like grains of salt? What did the growths look like?

 

[Fishygirly]

ss

The threading was string, like bits had snapped off, and the outgrowths were like sticking out and u cud see blud.

 

[Allivymar]

nteresting; I'll have to add that to my list of symptoms with different names...thanx!

And just FYI, after reading your description, I'm guessing your fish had some sort of bacterial infection. The threading is also known as fin rot, and the outgrowths as tumors. Definitely sound like infection, especially since you could see blood in the tumors. Keep a close eye on your water parameters, as poor water quality stresses fish and makes them more susceptible disease, and watch your other fish as infections can be contagious.

 

[Fishygirly]

Er...

Er...
I don't think I explained a lot, under the gills there was blud, not anywhere else.

 

[Fishygirly]

Well, thanks every one for your opinions, but does anyone actually KNOW what is wrong?
:x :|

 

[ferret]

Since you don't seem to have read Alli's posts very well, I'll spell it out.

Your tank is too small.
Your tank is not suitable for a goldfish.
Your tank did not recieve partial water changes.
Your fish had an infection of some sort, probably caused by or accelerated by the above.

I'm repeating Alli, but: The ammonia in the tank was likely way above acceptable levels. This will burn the fish's gills (Fish lungs) and cause damage (Scarring and bleeding) at high enough levels. This damages the fish's ability to breathe, which coupled with a lack of air, probably caused it to slowly sufficate. The slow nature of this death may have led to other infections as well as finrot.

In short, your fish got sick, and between that and probably not being able to breathe, died. Please research fish and aquarium keeping more before buying another. Thank you.

Alli rocks.

 

[Tigerlily]

Bright red under the gills = ammonia poisoning

Check this out...

http://koivet.com/html/articles/articles_results.php?article_id=59&category=12&search_term=ammonia

Fish suffering in water with high ammonia accumulations will isolate themselves, lie on the bottom, clamp their fins, secrete excess slime, and are much more susceptible to parasitic and bacterial infection.

Do some searches on koivet.com. They have a lot of information geared specifically toward goldfish. You'll note that they recommend nothing less than a 10 gallon tank for a goldfish. There is also a ton of information about ammonia and special goldfish needs.

 

[Fishygirly]

You say ammonia was high in levels, it WAS NOT!
It was 0 and now does anyone one kno!?
Oh, by the way, ferret.
Do u have to be a right know-it-all?Oh, thnx Tigerlily. It was a good link.

 

[ferret]

This is the first time you have finally posted the ammonia level, despite multiple people asking for the numbers. Once again, Alli has covered all possiblities, and done extensive research on your tank and situation. Read her posts. You don't seem to be listening to what people tell you. If you don't want to accept the answers already provided, I don't think you're going to get anything else out of this thread. No one can provide you a solid definate answer.