Need help with Angel fish

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Potluck

Aquarium Advice Addict
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Oct 29, 2015
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So a about 5 days ago I had a mishap happen where my glass lid fell in the tank and scared my angel I don't think it hit him but he's been acting very strange since, he's usually always active swimming around the tank, since that day he won't eat, I've dangled blood worms right in his face and no go, he goes for flake food but spits it back out, tonight I saw what looked like him vomit, he shook rapidly and then green stuff came from his mouth, he's also very territorial now I did notice in his very top fin there is a hole in it that I didn't notice before, now all he does is hide in the plants or literally at the top where his head is like almost out of the water, I did my water change yesterday gonna have to do another one tomorrow cause I have fed way to much trying to get him to at least get a few flakes and Maybe a blood worm, any idea what's going on?
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite -0
Ph 7.5
Water temp 76
Nitrate - 50
 
Fish can vomit for similar reasons to any other animal vomiting. Clearly there is an issue, but it could be a coincidence that it is happening after the lid fell. Any chance the fish rammed the glass in fright? Maybe neurological damage?
Or, if is is unrelated he may have eaten too much in the past and it working on digesting it. What kind of blood worms are you feeding? Frozen or freeze dried? Any bloated appearance or weird poop?
 
I would suggest getting the nitrates under 40 PPM ( the lower the better) and raise the temp up to about 78-80 degrees. Angels prefer a warmer water.
As for the behavior change, the lid falling in may have spooked the fish and it just needs time to regain it's "composure". Unfortunately, many Angels today carry all kind of "bugs" and "Worms" in them. Assuming that the food you fed is still good, the fact that he tried to eat but didn't swallow and threw something up suggests to me the fish is suffering from a parasite somewhere in it's gullet or throat and I would medicate the tank or the fish by itself with an anti parasite medication.

So that's 3 things I would do and watch the results.
 
The blood worms are frozen, i put them in a little container of fish tank water to thaw them , I left them sit for a while to swell up cause I read it can cause bloat, no signs of ill affects with him no bloat or anything like that, I don't know if he hit the glass it was to fast to see, as far as my temp and Nitrate, Nitrate at 50 is not a big deal I am trying to get it lower but it just doesn't happen when added plants and do more frequent water changes, the temp I keep at 75-77 because bacteria had a hard time growing in lower Temps, I've had the angel for 2 years, no other fish are acting weird they all eat and are happy, but my angel isn't and it's frustrating me because I don't want him to die from starvation.
 
The blood worms are frozen, i put them in a little container of fish tank water to thaw them , I left them sit for a while to swell up cause I read it can cause bloat, no signs of ill affects with him no bloat or anything like that, I don't know if he hit the glass it was to fast to see, as far as my temp and Nitrate, Nitrate at 50 is not a big deal I am trying to get it lower but it just doesn't happen when added plants and do more frequent water changes, the temp I keep at 75-77 because bacteria had a hard time growing in lower Temps, I've had the angel for 2 years, no other fish are acting weird they all eat and are happy, but my angel isn't and it's frustrating me because I don't want him to die from starvation.

The worms I was talking about are internal not food. Many fish carry intestinal worms and they just need a stress to make them become active in your fish. When I first got restarted with breeding Angels a couple years back, THAT was my biggest problem. I'd have the fish for a while then BAM!!!!, they would come down with something out of the blue. The fact that you've had the fish for 2 years doesn't negate that possibility. All the fish I am talking about were breeding adults when it happened.
No, 50PPM is not a high level for many fish but Angels are a bit more sensitive and that may have been high enough to kick start the stress that caused the issue with this one fish. Lowering it may just help definitely more than hurt. In aquariums, the buildup of one chemical means an overabundance of another. If you are getting such a high reading due to your ferts, then you are dosing too much. If you aren't adding anything, you are overfeeding or under water changing, etc. SOMETHING organic ( unless it's your water source) is creating an end result of too much nitrate in the water.
Temperature: Angels are actually a "Tropical" fish and will do much better in warmer water than colder water. 75 is too cold. Bumping it up to 79- 80 should have no ill effects on your bacteria bed and fish. I have a whole hatchery climate controlled to 80 degrees and all of my sponge filters ( I have close to 60 of them) are all converting ammonia into nitrates like a pro. ;)
As for disease bacteria, your fish, when they are healthy, should be able to easily ward off bacterial disease issues. If they can't, it means they are not healthy and a good look needs to be taken at your set up, fish sources and aquarium habits. Fish are bombarded with disease organisms all the time but when healthy, as I previously mentioned, can easily ward them off. Good clean habits and habitats make for less bacterial/fungal issues in the end.

Hope this helps (y)
 
I just get worried because a year ago I got columnaris which wiped out half my stock in 3-4 months, I ran the tank at 80 at that time , when I turned it Down the columnaris stopped spreading long enough where I could bomb my tank with a dose of kanaplex and furan 2 which didn't really work either, I dont use ferts I have never been able to get my nitrates down tap source is 2 ppm, I do 1/3rd gravel a week with 30% water for 3 weeks let it rest the the 4th, clean filters on the first week of my tank maintenence if needed. I was over feeding, I was at 90ppm Nitrate so now I feed 5 times a week once a day instead of 7 sometimes twice a day.

Yes I should run my tank warmer as clown loaches like 80 + also, the tank after double checking with a new digital thermometer is 78 not 75-76


As far as explaining the worms I feed was from absolutes question of which kind
 
I just get worried because a year ago I got columnaris which wiped out half my stock in 3-4 months, I ran the tank at 80 at that time , when I turned it Down the columnaris stopped spreading long enough where I could bomb my tank with a dose of kanaplex and furan 2 which didn't really work either, I dont use ferts I have never been able to get my nitrates down tap source is 2 ppm, I do 1/3rd gravel a week with 30% water for 3 weeks let it rest the the 4th, clean filters on the first week of my tank maintenence if needed. I was over feeding, I was at 90ppm Nitrate so now I feed 5 times a week once a day instead of 7 sometimes twice a day.

Yes I should run my tank warmer as clown loaches like 80 + also, the tank after double checking with a new digital thermometer is 78 not 75-76


As far as explaining the worms I feed was from absolutes question of which kind

This raises a couple of flags for me. #1- how many times you feed your fish is not as important as how much you feed at each feeding. It's actually better to feed smaller amounts multiple times per day than 1 big feeding. The chances of lost food getting into the substrate and decaying goes way down when the fish eat it all at one time. So how much should you feed? Here's how I do it and was told by my Mentor: Say for argument's sake that you feed 1 teaspoon of food per day to your fish. It's better to feed 1/2 teaspoon 2 times per day OR 1/3 teaspoon 3 times per day OR 1/4 teaspoon 4 times per day, etc.( I think you get the point :huh:) than to feed 1 teaspoon once per day. This way, the fish should be hungry to eat all that you put in the tank immediately ( within a couple minutes is considered immediately ;) ) and no excess food gets into the substrate to decay. The key is that at the end of the last feeding, you still have only fed that 1 teaspoon full of food in 1 day and nothing is wasted. But say the fish don't eat it all at 1 of those feedings. Then you have reached the real amount of food you should be feeding your fish. Just add up what you have fed to that point and then start dividing THAT amount for your daily feeding amount. (y)

#2- Diseases are related to stress ( as confirmed in the following article Columnaris Disease Education from FishVet, Inc.) and poor water quality is a stress to the fish. You may want to read through this article as it gives good instructions on how to avoid columnaris. The fact that it took months to kill off your fish means that the tank was never really "fixed" and the disease was allowed to carry on for so long. From what you said previously, it does sound like a water quality issue as the cause.

#3- If you water source is showing a nitrate reading from the start ( even tho it is a low reading) you may want to invest in either a good filter for your water line or prepare your water for water changes in advance in a separate bucket with a corner filter ( or some other cheap filter) and use a nitrate absorbing material in that filter prior to adding it to your tank. This way, your fish will be getting their nitrates from their poo and not your water. :whistle::brows:


As for your temp- if it is that high, we can basically rule that out as a cause of this situation. (y)

Hope this all helps. (y)
 
The columnaris was from a sick fish my nephew put in my tank he got from a friend, he did not have permission and I would not have allowed it, i tried so many meds to cure the culamanaris is not even funny like $125.00 in meds, water changes every single day, med dips, swabs everything that was recommended to me by several top ranked aquarium stores in the United States, not just my state, there are 4 strains of columnaris it didn't kill every fish but 16 of them, i have 1 aqua clear 110, 1 aqua clear 70, one is running Nitra zorb , one is running bio Chem zorb, I do need to change gravel as my gravel is big pebble so when I vac I don't really get any turnover, there has been no research done on warm water fish as far as nitrates except one on fry and to kill them it was 900 ppm, I've been trying for 2 years to get it below 40, believe me it's frustrating, I don't feed alot but yes feeding smaller makes sense but I do have a clean up crew as well, clown loaches, bumble bee Catfish, pleco, not a real good clean up crew especially with my big gravel, I vac 1/3 of the gravel a week very thoroughly where I Cannot get anymore stuff up in that area, then just go over the top of the other area but the thing with my vac it won't suck up dead snail casings so I'm thinking I need a stronger one.
 
The columnaris was from a sick fish my nephew put in my tank he got from a friend, he did not have permission and I would not have allowed it, i tried so many meds to cure the culamanaris is not even funny like $125.00 in meds, water changes every single day, med dips, swabs everything that was recommended to me by several top ranked aquarium stores in the United States, not just my state, there are 4 strains of columnaris it didn't kill every fish but 16 of them, i have 1 aqua clear 110, 1 aqua clear 70, one is running Nitra zorb , one is running bio Chem zorb, I do need to change gravel as my gravel is big pebble so when I vac I don't really get any turnover, there has been no research done on warm water fish as far as nitrates except one on fry and to kill them it was 900 ppm, I've been trying for 2 years to get it below 40, believe me it's frustrating, I don't feed alot but yes feeding smaller makes sense but I do have a clean up crew as well, clown loaches, bumble bee Catfish, pleco, not a real good clean up crew especially with my big gravel, I vac 1/3 of the gravel a week very thoroughly where I Cannot get anymore stuff up in that area, then just go over the top of the other area but the thing with my vac it won't suck up dead snail casings so I'm thinking I need a stronger one.

I'm not sure where you read that nitrates need to be over 900 ppm to kill the fry but I am an Angel breeder and have been so for over 40 years and I can tell you from experience ( past and present), it does not take a high nitrate level to effect Angels. There are also physical deformities that are nitrate level related for Angelfish fry. So study or not, it's a thing. :whistle:

One thing i do know is that detritus in the gravel is a major cause of Nitrates so i would address that vaccum issue a.s.a.p.(y)
 
I've bought 3 vacs, 1self prime, one you prime yourself and an electric can you recommend a good vac? the one I have now is the big top fin one with the plunger ball to prime it i can't use one for the faucet I don't have a hookup for it.
 
I've bought 3 vacs, 1self prime, one you prime yourself and an electric can you recommend a good vac? the one I have now is the big top fin one with the plunger ball to prime it i can't use one for the faucet I don't have a hookup for it.

Sorry, I don't use them so I don't know which ones are good and which aren't. I suggest you contact the stores or companies that sell them and explain your gravel situation and get their recommendation. I just use a piece of hosing and a net handle to swish through the gravel to get the detritus floating. After a bit, some will get filtered out by your filters ( you clean them after then) and whatever settled back on top of the gravel, I'd siphon out.
 
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