new 20g tank - going fishless - wife is distressed!

[3fish3boys]

My two sons 6 and 5 came home with two goldfish in baggies three months ago from a teacher at school (a cruel thing I now have realized)..i've kept them alive in an 2g bowl using Bowl Buddies and a full water change every week for over 3 months..my boys put a few marbles in the bottom and a plastic ship..the fish love the marbles and move them all around the bowl..it has been quite fun and now I'm hooked.

I went out 3 days ago and bought a TopFin 20g starter kit from Petsmart (includes filter,hood,etc), stand, a couple plants, a castle (boys idea!), gravel, a gravel vacuum, a Rena air supply, and wall bubbler, a bottle of stress coat...I've decided to go fishless until the tank is right and plan to move the two goldfish as soon as the tank is ready...I put in the required stress coat and the two pouches of bio gel provided in my start up kit...and I'm in waiting mode...now the problems

Its been just 3 days and tank smells already.. the Mrs. is fit to be tied...I expect that some water type smell is normal but must admit that this seems a bit strong..will this eventually go away?

the room my tank is in stays fairly warm summer and winter..about 72 to 74 degrees and the tank appears to be in the same range...the 2g bowl i have sits in a room that is generally 70 at all times...will this temperature change hurt my fish?

Finally, from my reading it appears that testing the water for nitrates, etc is important....does this still hold true even for goldfish? Also would appreciate a referral to a good website so that I can become better educated.

[peterp]

If you are doing a fishless cycle what are you using for an ammonia source?

May be better off to use the 2 goldfish to do the tank cycle.
Just clean the tank(no detergent), de-chlorinate the water and put the fish in. (Assuming the filter is running :P ) Then do a weeksy 15%-20% water change.

Goldfish tend to prefer cooler waters, but mine get whatever their little pond gets to in the summer and in winter they live in a 100 [acronym:faf138b251="Gallon"]gal[/acronym:faf138b251] horse trough in my basement.
(With a 350 [acronym:faf138b251="Gallons per hour"]gph[/acronym:faf138b251] pond filter)

I'd guess the summer water may get into the 80's and in winter they are around 72. All doing well and some are way over 10 years old and over a foot long.

[sweetsuvvyb]

DEFINITELY need to keep track of ammonia, and nitrites, in any tank, with any kind of aquatic life.

If you have test kits, i'd test your water right now. I'm not familiar with with "bio gel", but it's been pretty well documented that there is only one product out there that contains the necessary/appropriate bacteria (it's called Bio-Spira, there is a product review somewhere in this forum). Even if the bio-gel had the right bacteria...with no fish to "feed" the colonies, you are bound to have ammonia and nitrite problems once the goldies are introduced.

Wouldn't worry about the temp...sounds just about perfect for the goldfish.

http://www.goldfishinfo.com has lots of good info on keeping goldfish (I myself am a huge goldie fan!).

[3fish3boys]

Thanks... I have a lot to learn...I thought I didn't need ammonia at the start...like I said..could use some good advice on the right reading source..especially on cycling, etc.

Wow...a foot long gold fish...will they stay small if I keep them in my tank? I have no place to put them if they get this big...hardly seems fair to raise them...

[3fish3boys]

Thanks sweetsuvvyb...will get my test kit tomorrow and read the provided link.

Sorry..the bio gel was Stress Zyme...it came with the tank

[peterp]

I suspect it depends on the type of goldfish, my goldfish and koi were bought/sold as pond fish. I think they can max out at 18 inches.
I don't think the "fancy" goldfish sold for home tanks get quite that large.

Originally Posted by 3fish3boys

Wow...a foot long gold fish...will they stay small if I keep them in my tank? I have no place to put them if they get this big...hardly seems fair to raise them...

[sweetsuvvyb]

I believe the goldfish sold for koi ponds are a slightly different species, that aquarium goldfish, while they can get that big...generally top out at 8 inches or so.

Your 20 gallon should be a great home for them!

A lot of the info (in my experience) provided with tank "kits" (which is what i have as well) is a little bit sub-par. When I got my very 1st tank, it seemed to suggest that if I left the tank alone for a week, it would somehow be ready for fish.

The pet stores (and some of the product manufacturers) would like you to believe that there is an additive or chemical that will cure any problem.

Really, all you need is a little patience.

Aquariums rely on what we call a "biofilter"...meaning we foster an environment where bacteria can grow inside the tank. These bacteria will keep the tank safe for your fish. There are 2 kinds that we want in there...the 1st kind will "eat" ammonia, and produce nitrite. The 2nd kind (which are a bit slower to grow initially), "eat" the nitrite, and produce nitrate...which is safe for fish to live in, unlike the ammonia or nitrite.

So when we talk about "cycling a new tank"...we're talking about the growing of those bacterial colonies. Goldfish are pretty hardy, so they'll probably be ok to be in the tank while this is going on (some fish can't tolerate the toxic ammonia or nitrite, even at low levels). But what you'll have to do is...every day, use your test kit to check the levels of ammonia and nitrites, and change 10-20% of the water if they test high. You'll initially see a spike in ammonia, then it will diminish, and you'll see a spike in nitrites (this is where the patience comes in!). Lastly...your nitrites will diminish, and you'll see nitrates...and voila! You have grown yourself a biofilter.

There is tons of information on this forum on cycling, and setting up new tanks. The search function can be useful if you're looking for something specific.

[tkos]

Goldfish are the reason that people at the fish stores tell you a fish will only grow as big as its tank. This isn't true for all fish, but goldfish tend to get their growth stunted by living in smaller containers. I suspect you have comet goldfish which if given the room would grow to be over 12 inches long, but they won't in your tank.

The big thing to remember with goldfish is that they are very ineffecient eaters and produce a lot of waste in their water. It is a must to test and do water changes frequently with goldfish. Also the 20 gallon may seem tempting to add more fish to but really 10 gallons per goldfish is the minimum you should have for them to stay healthy.

If the plants you bought were live ones then they will help keep the goldfish healthy by using the nitrates, nitrites and ammonia as a food source. Of course goldfish tend to use live plants as a food source.

One final note is that you should make sure you buy "Goldfish Food" and not tropical fish food. Goldfish are mainly veggitarians and need high carbohydrate food. Tropical fish food is very high in protein and can lead to digestive problems in goldfish.

[3fish3boys]

I was up past midnight last night reading up on the cycle...I see why you asked me about the ammonia source now...great call on the magic one week...basically they told me to pour in the bacteria and wait a week...but with nothing to eat how does that colonize the bacteria? It makes no sense unless they just expect the system to settle down, temperature adjust, gravel particles cleaned, etc...I've purchased my test kit and am heading home now to test...expect that I will add a fish tomorrow or Thurs..it will be kind of fun to test often and get feel for the cycle

Yes, I am feeding them goldfish food...I think I have a fantail and a Shunikun(sp?)..but they are Goldie (hey, the kids named them) and Tiger..the fantail is hilarious and pushes marbles all around the bottom of their current bowl...my board name comes from my third boy who I promised a fish when we got a 20 gallon tank...he already has a name (Pirate) but no fish...it sounds like I better back off the third fish or buy a Comet that will stay small and then plan on keeping things very clean

Very appreciative of the help...will post again when I have news or have completed the cycle

On more thing...the musty smell...pretty normal for a 20g aquarium?

[AtodaJ]

Originally Posted by 3fish3boys

...basically they told me to pour in the bacteria and wait a week...but with nothing to eat how does that colonize the bacteria? It makes no sense unless they just expect the system to settle down, temperature adjust, gravel particles cleaned, etc...

I think you are referring to the Stress Zyme bacterial product here. [acronym:611dea07e0="In My Honest Opinion"]IMHO[/acronym:611dea07e0], that product does not work and actually should be avoided. The only product that seems to work is called Bio Spira. Search this forum for other topics on Stress Zyme and Bio Spira to read the experience of this forums members with these products.

Stress Zyme contains the wrong bacterial type. That is why you have to keep adding it during water changes.... cuz your tank won't have cycled. Don't waste your money on Stress Zyme as it will only create an unstable tank.

Good luck!