Hi, I am in need of some advice for my daughters' new fish tanks please.
We have one 20 gallon community tank and one 5 gallon tank, both containing several aquatic plants as well as aquatic life.
I failed to research before establishing the tanks in time for my daughter's birthday. I followed advice from the pet store, and my memory from the tank I had for my older daughter 15 years ago, and ran our tanks for several days (without cycling) then added fish with weekly 20% water changes. I also added aquarium salt 1 T for 2 doses before discontinuing it. We jumped right in over a couple of weeks adding fish in small groups, but clearly too soon.
In sum, in our 20 gallon tank we now have 4 male guppies and 6 platties (4 adult and 2 new babies), a dwarf otocinclus, two reticulated cory cats and three wild neon tetras, which should be about as many as our tank can handle. The 20 gallon has 2 filters, a bio stone, an air stone with air pump and plants. Tap water pH is 8.4, which was usually the tank's pH as well. Temp is 77F. I will have to get a tank going for male platties in the near future, but first I have a bad situation with this tank.
Our 5 gallon tank houses two african dwarf frogs and a male betta. It actually appears to be cycled with 0-.25 ammonia, neg nitrites, 0-5 nitrates and pH 8.4 per API liquid testing kits. Its only problem is brown algae on the driftwood. It is our 20 gallon tank which has been very difficult and confusing.
We started with a pH kit only. We bought additional fish for both tanks at the two different pet stores. The two from the chain pet store died within 1-2 days. I checked pH which was always quite high (8.4) and it was down to 6.0! Both stores had said a full testing kit would not be necessary, but I began researching and bought tests for high pH, ammonia and nitrate, then later for nitrite. Ammonia was sky high (8ppm).
Since then I have been doing almost daily pwc (sometimes up to 75%) and testing water 2x daily for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and pH. I have also been adding Prime to the water with every water change. I added one bottle of Tetra Safe Start (half dosage for 20 gallon tank) a few weeks ago. On two occassions I tried not changing the water for 48 hours to allow for bacterial growth. but I added Prime diluted in a cup of water directly to the tank to keep ammonia, nitrites, nitrates in less toxic forms.
The ammonia has been very resistent to lowering even with pwc. (was up over 4 ppm for 3 days even with pwc) and now for over a week we cannot get it below 1-2ppm. About 2 weeks ago I did remove 3 aquatic bulbs that never sprouted from the 20 gallon tank and that helped bring us down to 2 from 4ppm ammonia, so that was a contributing factor. We do trim off dead leaves and the other plants in the tank look beautiful and healthy.
During this process we lost one cory cat (the youngest) to what I believe was nitrite toxicity (though that was the last kit I purchased so I do not have nitrite readings for that day) and we literally "lost" a ghost shrimp (I can't find its remains) about three and a half weeks into this process. The other fish are apparently active, with good appetites- even the two new babies in the baby keeper. I know though that the stress could overwhelm them at any time and is not good for their health in general, but we are doing our best.
Sooo the confusing part:
Nitrite in our 20 gallon tank first measured 0, then jumped to 1 for one day and then has been 0 ppm since. Nitrate has gone up to 30-40 ppm for only one day, then dropped to 5 over two days and now is just showing traces (somewhere between 0 and 5). Yesterday I did a pwc and the Ammonia was 1-2, but closer to 1, today it is closer to 2, all last week it seemed closer to 1. Yesterday pH was starting to lower, at 7.8 before pwc and I only changed 20% to not shock the fish. Since our first scare of pH 6.0, the pH has been 8.4 steadily. Now the pH is down to 7.4??? I do not yet have kits to check for GH/KH.
I am confused because ammonia is basic and our nitrite levels are 0. Our 5 gallon is reading as I mentioned, with normal (for us...) pH of 8.4. Its nitrate levels are very close to the 20 gallon now at 0-5ppm. The difference in the two tanks is size and bioload.... perhaps filtration, but the big tank has two 20-30 gallon size filters. Also, because of the frogs I did not add aquarium salt to the smaller tank, whereas I did (briefly) add it to the large one.
We have added seachem flourish (plant fertilizer) both tanks for the first time 5 days ago. I did not see any immediate changes but we are having changes now. I don't know if they relate in any way. I also added algone three days ago, but the pH had already started dropping before adding this product. Algone seems to work by a combo of plant tannins (maybe) and fermentation which releases H202 and controls some forms of algae. It is said to reduce ammonia, nitrites and nitrates as well. I added packets to both of my tanks and the 5 gallon is not showing any pH changes and its ammonia actually reduced from .25-.5 day one to 0-.25 now.
I am worried about the stress of ammonia, the stress of pH changes and also the stress of constant water changes. DId we start to cycle and then overwhelm it with bio load or did we kill the beneficial flora with too many pwc's? DO I just continue pwc's or should I add either more safestart or part of my other tank's filter (I am reluctant because the 5 gallon does have a diatom algae problem).
Could I be stirring up the gravel too much or too little with vacuuming. I was doing 20 percent vacuums with each change, but now it is hard with babykeeper in place.
WHat does the lower than usual pH mean???? Is it possible the tank is still cycling and the bacteria in time will manage to bring ammonia down to 0? Nitrite has not been seen in three days, but it showed up a few days after I saw the higher spike of nitrates. I really need some help to try and figure this all out.
For now I will continue pwc's (maybe 2-3 small ones daily? and practice patience. Water changes were more straightforward before the pH concerns, now I worry that if I change enough water to remove the ammonia, not only will it slow the bacterial growhth, but also put the poor fish into shock from the sudden upward shift of pH.
Thank you kindly in advance for any experience, help or advice you are willing to share.
We have one 20 gallon community tank and one 5 gallon tank, both containing several aquatic plants as well as aquatic life.
I failed to research before establishing the tanks in time for my daughter's birthday. I followed advice from the pet store, and my memory from the tank I had for my older daughter 15 years ago, and ran our tanks for several days (without cycling) then added fish with weekly 20% water changes. I also added aquarium salt 1 T for 2 doses before discontinuing it. We jumped right in over a couple of weeks adding fish in small groups, but clearly too soon.
In sum, in our 20 gallon tank we now have 4 male guppies and 6 platties (4 adult and 2 new babies), a dwarf otocinclus, two reticulated cory cats and three wild neon tetras, which should be about as many as our tank can handle. The 20 gallon has 2 filters, a bio stone, an air stone with air pump and plants. Tap water pH is 8.4, which was usually the tank's pH as well. Temp is 77F. I will have to get a tank going for male platties in the near future, but first I have a bad situation with this tank.
Our 5 gallon tank houses two african dwarf frogs and a male betta. It actually appears to be cycled with 0-.25 ammonia, neg nitrites, 0-5 nitrates and pH 8.4 per API liquid testing kits. Its only problem is brown algae on the driftwood. It is our 20 gallon tank which has been very difficult and confusing.
We started with a pH kit only. We bought additional fish for both tanks at the two different pet stores. The two from the chain pet store died within 1-2 days. I checked pH which was always quite high (8.4) and it was down to 6.0! Both stores had said a full testing kit would not be necessary, but I began researching and bought tests for high pH, ammonia and nitrate, then later for nitrite. Ammonia was sky high (8ppm).
Since then I have been doing almost daily pwc (sometimes up to 75%) and testing water 2x daily for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and pH. I have also been adding Prime to the water with every water change. I added one bottle of Tetra Safe Start (half dosage for 20 gallon tank) a few weeks ago. On two occassions I tried not changing the water for 48 hours to allow for bacterial growth. but I added Prime diluted in a cup of water directly to the tank to keep ammonia, nitrites, nitrates in less toxic forms.
The ammonia has been very resistent to lowering even with pwc. (was up over 4 ppm for 3 days even with pwc) and now for over a week we cannot get it below 1-2ppm. About 2 weeks ago I did remove 3 aquatic bulbs that never sprouted from the 20 gallon tank and that helped bring us down to 2 from 4ppm ammonia, so that was a contributing factor. We do trim off dead leaves and the other plants in the tank look beautiful and healthy.
During this process we lost one cory cat (the youngest) to what I believe was nitrite toxicity (though that was the last kit I purchased so I do not have nitrite readings for that day) and we literally "lost" a ghost shrimp (I can't find its remains) about three and a half weeks into this process. The other fish are apparently active, with good appetites- even the two new babies in the baby keeper. I know though that the stress could overwhelm them at any time and is not good for their health in general, but we are doing our best.
Sooo the confusing part:
Nitrite in our 20 gallon tank first measured 0, then jumped to 1 for one day and then has been 0 ppm since. Nitrate has gone up to 30-40 ppm for only one day, then dropped to 5 over two days and now is just showing traces (somewhere between 0 and 5). Yesterday I did a pwc and the Ammonia was 1-2, but closer to 1, today it is closer to 2, all last week it seemed closer to 1. Yesterday pH was starting to lower, at 7.8 before pwc and I only changed 20% to not shock the fish. Since our first scare of pH 6.0, the pH has been 8.4 steadily. Now the pH is down to 7.4??? I do not yet have kits to check for GH/KH.
I am confused because ammonia is basic and our nitrite levels are 0. Our 5 gallon is reading as I mentioned, with normal (for us...) pH of 8.4. Its nitrate levels are very close to the 20 gallon now at 0-5ppm. The difference in the two tanks is size and bioload.... perhaps filtration, but the big tank has two 20-30 gallon size filters. Also, because of the frogs I did not add aquarium salt to the smaller tank, whereas I did (briefly) add it to the large one.
We have added seachem flourish (plant fertilizer) both tanks for the first time 5 days ago. I did not see any immediate changes but we are having changes now. I don't know if they relate in any way. I also added algone three days ago, but the pH had already started dropping before adding this product. Algone seems to work by a combo of plant tannins (maybe) and fermentation which releases H202 and controls some forms of algae. It is said to reduce ammonia, nitrites and nitrates as well. I added packets to both of my tanks and the 5 gallon is not showing any pH changes and its ammonia actually reduced from .25-.5 day one to 0-.25 now.
I am worried about the stress of ammonia, the stress of pH changes and also the stress of constant water changes. DId we start to cycle and then overwhelm it with bio load or did we kill the beneficial flora with too many pwc's? DO I just continue pwc's or should I add either more safestart or part of my other tank's filter (I am reluctant because the 5 gallon does have a diatom algae problem).
Could I be stirring up the gravel too much or too little with vacuuming. I was doing 20 percent vacuums with each change, but now it is hard with babykeeper in place.
WHat does the lower than usual pH mean???? Is it possible the tank is still cycling and the bacteria in time will manage to bring ammonia down to 0? Nitrite has not been seen in three days, but it showed up a few days after I saw the higher spike of nitrates. I really need some help to try and figure this all out.
For now I will continue pwc's (maybe 2-3 small ones daily? and practice patience. Water changes were more straightforward before the pH concerns, now I worry that if I change enough water to remove the ammonia, not only will it slow the bacterial growhth, but also put the poor fish into shock from the sudden upward shift of pH.
Thank you kindly in advance for any experience, help or advice you are willing to share.
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