newbie questions

[Cfelski]

OK, I'm new, I'm a biology teacher and want to start up an aquarium at home - I think I'm going to go for a 35-40gal tank and I looked into the types of fish to get - I think I'm going to go for a combination of gourami, rasbora, loach, cherry barbs, maybe some neons. i know i can't get all of these, i was just checking around for compatibility. A few questions:
--I need an algae eater - maybe a flying fox? will a snail work or will it kill my plants?
--what plants should i get?
--how many fish can a 35 gallon tank support? I know it prob depends on the size of the fish, i'm just looking for a general idea
--once i have the equipment up and running, can i add all the fish at once or one type at a time?

thanks!

 

[Jchillin]

Welcome to AA! Nice to have a Biology teacher here.

--I need an algae eater - maybe a flying fox? will a snail work or will it kill my plants?

Dwarf plecos and small planorbis spp (aka tiny ramshorns) will take care of your algae issues if you should happen to have any.

--what plants should i get?

Come on over to the Planted tank forum...more support from some very well established plant geeks...err, folks.

--how many fish can a 35 gallon tank support? I know it prob depends on the size of the fish, i'm just looking for a general idea.

You just answered your own question but it also depends on aggression as well. For instance, if you had some SA cichlids such as apistos, rams or Angels, they like to take over sections of your tank for their own purposes.

--once i have the equipment up and running, can i add all the fish at once or one type at a time?

You just asked the Million Dollar question. It is the bane of aquaria and the reason is quite simple:

The tank needs to cycle (as a biology teacher, I know I don't need to go into details on the nitrogen cycle but if you want a good read, check out the articles section). Once cycled, the bio-load needs to stay in balance with your established bacteria. If you stock the tank rapidly, the beneficial bacteria will not be able to handle it and an ammonia spike is on the way.

The nitrogen cycle usually takes 4+ weeks depending on the method you use. At that point, stocking by species (starting with the hardiest) is the best method. The most sensitive fish should be last (about a month after the first fish went in).

 

[MattAquaBio]

You can use a fishless cycle which is much quicker if you want, there are products you can use, i cant remember the name off the top of my head but i think its like bio-spira or some sort.
You could go by 1'' per gallon rule (which works to an extent), it means that if you had a thirty gallon tank, by that rule you could have 30 1'' neon tetras. But you need to buy fish according the size they CAN get if you go by that rule.
Just remember to check how big a fish can get. For example, a bala shark which grows over a foot long would be a bad choice for a 30 gallon aquarium where the depth front to back of the aquarium is say 12''. Also remember territory, if you have a substantially long aquarium you could possibly have 2 territorial fish.
Dont add the fish all at once, that would make your ammonia levels spike and would be harmful to your fish, you could do partial water changes and keep a close eye on your parameters, but its usually better to add them slowly.

I just have common plecos. They get pretty big though, you can buy drawf species like Rubber lip plecos. I dont have any experience with the flyin fox though.
I do know that some common snails will eat your plants, but i think mystery snails wont eat your plants, not sure about that though.
As far as the fish you listed, i'm not sure, i dont keep gouramis. Just be careful with your neons, if your not careful they will be a snack to bigger fish.
I'll check on compatibility and get back to you.
I just checked, a dwarf species gourami would be fine to have 2-3 of. The gourami would also be fine with the rasbora, the loaches may get to big for your aquarium though they are peaceful, for example the clown loach will grow up to 11''. It just depends on what type of loach you want.
Also the cherry barbs would be fine. They are a schooling type fish and should be kept in schools though. So if you got a 40 gallon, you could have, (for example) 2 gouramis (5 inches long each). Five cherry barbs (2 inches each) totallying 20 inches so far. Five rasbora (each 2 inches) 30 inches so far. And then maybe 8-10 neons if you wanted. Or a smaller species loach. Thats a lot of fish, but following the 1'' per gallon rule, is perfectly fine.
Keep in mind the larger the tank the more stable parameters are.
Sorry, this post was all over the place lol.
Hope this helps.

 

[Cfelski]

You can use a fishless cycle which is much quicker if you want, there are products you can use, i cant remember the name off the top of my head but i think its like bio-spira or some sort.
You could go by 1'' per gallon rule (which works to an extent), it means that if you had a thirty gallon tank, by that rule you could have 30 1'' neon tetras. But you need to buy fish according the size they CAN get if you go by that rule.
Just remember to check how big a fish can get. For example, a bala shark which grows over a foot long would be a bad choice for a 30 gallon aquarium where the depth front to back of the aquarium is say 12''. Also remember territory, if you have a substantially long aquarium you could possibly have 2 territorial fish.
Dont add the fish all at once, that would make your ammonia levels spike and would be harmful to your fish, you could do partial water changes and keep a close eye on your parameters, but its usually better to add them slowly.

I just have common plecos. They get pretty big though, you can buy drawf species like Rubber lip plecos. I dont have any experience with the flyin fox though.
I do know that some common snails will eat your plants, but i think mystery snails wont eat your plants, not sure about that though.
As far as the fish you listed, i'm not sure, i dont keep gouramis. Just be careful with your neons, if your not careful they will be a snack to bigger fish.
I'll check on compatibility and get back to you.
I just checked, a dwarf species gourami would be fine to have 2-3 of. The gourami would also be fine with the rasbora, the loaches may get to big for your aquarium though they are peaceful, for example the clown loach will grow up to 11''. It just depends on what type of loach you want.
Also the cherry barbs would be fine. They are a schooling type fish and should be kept in schools though. So if you got a 40 gallon, you could have, (for example) 2 gouramis (5 inches long each). Five cherry barbs (2 inches each) totallying 20 inches so far. Five rasbora (each 2 inches) 30 inches so far. And then maybe 8-10 neons if you wanted. Or a smaller species loach. Thats a lot of fish, but following the 1'' per gallon rule, is perfectly fine.
Keep in mind the larger the tank the more stable parameters are.
Sorry, this post was all over the place lol.
Hope this helps.

i think my premliminary plan is to get 2 gouramis, 2 peaceful bettas, and 5-6 each of either rasbora, loaches, cherry barbs, or neons - probably 2 of those 4, maybe 3, depending on how much the tank can handle, wiht of course the flora to support them. i have all the specs on size and i'm pretty sure they're all compatible (the biggest is 6cm at max expect for the flying fox which gets up to 12 cm - will an algae eater hurt other fish? can they be territorial?)- i checked all the details on pH, dH, and temperature (i teach chemistry as well so i know the deal on this stuff too), as well as territoriality. the only thing i need at this point is an algae eater. in my classroom i've had bad experience with mystery snails - they were dead in a few days and my plants were annhiliated. i also had 3 rainbow sharks, and i saw them nipping at the fronds of my plants so i suspect they were to blame. i'd be into snails though, as it's nice to have the biodiversity piece in there and not have 100% fish, but if they're just going to destroy my plantlife then i'll avoid them.

anyone have any recommendations for a good starter book? i'm being extra cautious and doing a lot of research early because i want my first experience to be a good one - i don't want to have a dead tank in a month.

thanks for you help sp far!

 

[MattAquaBio]

Yeah an algae eater would be fine for your tank. Like i said, you can get a common pleco, they get up to a foot long though and i believe later in their maturity they eat less algea, (if you get a common make sure you either have a bigger home for it later on, or a store willing to take him back, i would advise against buying a fish and just expecting to take him back) so your best bet is a dwarf pleco, which isnt the least territorial and just minds its own business. And i know the temptation to have 2 bettas in the same tank is so great but i'd advise against it. 2 male bettas will kill each other, even a male and female wouldnt get along until it was time to breed. So one would be better unless you plan on dividing the tank.
As for plants, what type of lighting are you planning on using? do you have atleast 1 wpg? That should be plenty to support low light plants, and your fish load should be enough for their carbon dioxide and fertilizatoin. How many plants are you planning on putting in there? i really doubt you need co2 injection.
What type of gouramis?
Neons are flashy and have a small bioload so you can have more of them, but they also tend to be less active and rather dull to watch. But they do add color to your tank. I havnet had personal experience with the rasbora or cherry barbs so i couldnt tell you, they are larger though and i believe less schooling fish so its up to you. if you get neons you need a fair sized school, (minimum 5 IMO, preferably 8+). So its all about what your looking for in your tank.
Since you are an educated person and dont need lots of pretty colorful pictures to keep you entertained i have a really good book you should check out.
Its called "exotic aquarium fishes" by Dr. William T. Innes.
Its informative and descriptive so your not having to guess what he's talking about. It has diagrams of fish anatomy and life cycles and stuff.
It has information on almost every large group of aquarium fish.
Anyway. You should really pick it up, i got it from McKays, A second hand bookstore around here for only 3.50.
Other than the 2 betas you have a great stocking list there and they are all compatible. What type of filter are you planning on running? If your willing to go a little further with maintenance and keep an eye on levels until your sure they are stable you can have all four of the groups you were talking about.
Just remember, one beta, if you get two you'll just end up with one anyway but he'll be injured.
Good luck .

 

[Cinder]

A great algae eater is the SAE (Siamese Algae Eater) - the true one - not the false SAE. Here's a great site to help you learn about the differences: http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ if you are interested. No they won't bother any other fish but sometimes can be territorial to each other. It would be best to just have one in your size tank.
Apple snails are also great clean-uppers and seldom bother plants. Here's a great site to learn about them: http://www.applesnail.net/.
There are some great loaches out there but not all will fit in your tank, such as Clown loaches. Sounds like you're already aware of that. What type are you thinking about?
Two Dwarf male Gouramis probably won't work in that size tank as they do get territorial.
You do have to keep in mind that fish have their own personalities and where something doesn't work for one person it may for someone else just because they got a mellower fish. IMO why chance it when we know up front the likelihood of aggression? But - that's for you to decide.
I continue to hear about people having problems keeping Neons alive. I have green Neon tetras and thus far haven't lost any (it's only been three months though - not long enough to have real experience). I don't know if they are hardier then regular Neons or if they've just done well here. They do school together almost all the time and do add great color to my aquarium.
As stated - don't get two Betta's. One will add great life to your tank.
Have fun - picking your fish is one of the best parts of setting up an aquarium.

 

[JustOneMore20]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned ottos, or otocinclus catfish. They stay small, around 1.5-2 inches and are great algae eaters. They are shoaling fish, so you'd need a small group of 3-4. I would add them near the end of the stocking. They need a cycled tank and established algae. They love planted tanks (usually more algae) and will usually eat algae wafers in supplement to the algae in the tank.

In a 35-40g tank I'd go with 2 schools of fish. 3 schools would fit, if you choose small types, but it will look very chaotic. 2 large schools are more appealing. Harlequin rasboras are great little fish. They are very hardy and very colorful. Neons are on the sensitive side. They are very colorful, but kind of boring in my opinion. I keep them, but they aren't very active, like my other fish. Glowlight tetras look similar to neons in shape. They are an orange-yellow color and are more active. Black neons are also pretty active and would be a good contrast to harlequins. Another tetra to check out are lemon tetras. They are very playful and pretty and would also contrast the rasboras.

i think my premliminary plan is to get 2 gouramis, 2 peaceful bettas, and 5-6 each

I'd go with only one gourami. Usually males are all that is sold in pet/fish stores and many times they don't get along. I'd go with one of the larger gourami types, such as a blue, gold, or pearl gourami and just get one. It will save you alot of trouble. Only female bettas can be kept in the same tank, and sometimes even they don't get along. You could try a trio, but its really hit or miss with bettas and gouramis. They share the same space, being labyrinth fish, so sometimes you can have problems. I'd choose either the gourami or the female bettas...or go with 1 male betta if you want...just pick peaceful, non-nippy tetras/rasboras. The ones I mentioned above are all peaceful.

Cherry barbs are peaceful and don't really school. They can be kept in trios of 1 male to 2 females, so you could have them in the tank if you wanted.

what plants should i get?

That depends on how much light you will have over the tank. Compact fluorescent lighting is best, in my opinion, for plants. I'd shoot for around 70 watts of light over a 35g tank or 80 watts over a 40g tank. That would be 2 watts per gallon which would allow you to grow medium and low light plants. If you are up for going with CO2 and all that, you can up the lighting to 3 watts per gallon or more. Check out the planted section...they can help you more on the subject of plants. I have around 2 watts per gallon over all my tanks and grow medium and some high light plants. I like lower maintenance (no CO2).

A good stocking for a 35g tank would be:

8 small schooling fish (type 1)
8 small schooling fish (type 2)
1 gourami/betta or a pair of rams (bolivians or german blues)
3 cherry barbs (1m/2f)
8 cories or 4 small type loaches
3-4 ottos or 1 bristlenose or rubbernose pleco

I think with 2 schools you will be more pleased visually. Having more than 2 types gets very messy looking. I should know, in my 55g I have 3 types, with one type only having 4 fish. I haven't been able to get any more, or I would. It looks very unappealing and takes away from the plants. You see the different types of fish, instead of the plants.