Nitrates

[cappa565]

Hey guys, invested in a water test kit!
Got the results of 0.25 ammonia 0 nitrite and 40 to 80ppm of nitrate! How do i lower my nitrate, my filter is currently an internal filter with only a sponge but i was thinking of adding some bacterial filtration like ceramic noodles. Would that help? And i do water change once a week! Thanks guys

 

[toolman]

Ceramic noodles won't lower your nitrates, they would just provide more surface for beneficial bacteria to grow on.

Three ways to lower nitrates...
1. Live plants will use nitrates.

2.nitrazorb or other nitrate absorbing media, but expensive and will need changed eventually.

3.water changes, do a bigger % or change more often. (maybe both)

 

[TeenyFish]

Do a 50% change immediately. 40-80 is a wide margin. At 40, it will be stressful, so imagine double that.

Test again an hour or so later. If you're still showing 40ppm, do another 50% change.

Test again tomorrow. If you're showing 20ppm or over, do another 50% change.

I would then test again twice a week. Say a Wed and Sat, for example.

Whenever nitrates are 20ppm or over, do your regular 20% change.

Do this for a couple weeks and you'll soon get the hang of how much to change how often.

 

[abw0004]

Plants help lower nitrates for future knowledge. But yes, do 50% water change

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Most aquatic plants prefer ammonium to nitrate/nitrate.

If they utilise no2/no3 typically it is converted back to ammonium before use. This comes at a cost, the plant uses energy to achieve the conversion. So it isn't optimal for the plant.
In the absence of ammonium they will use nitrate but it is not the preferred option for most aquatic plant species. Even those few plants that do utilise nitrate over ammonium, the amount mg/l is still less than you would typically see in an aquarium.
Conversely terrestrial plants typically prefer nitrate to ammonium.

A sponge filter is enough for a lot of aquaria, a good portion of biological activity happens throughout the tank and not within the filter exclusively. The best thing for nitrate reduction in small systems is water changes and/or the uptake of nitrates through the roots of terrestrial plants.

 

[TeenyFish]

A good portion of biological activity happens throughout the tank and not within the filter exclusively...

How'd you figure that one?

I believe 95% of the beneficial bacteria are housed in the filter system, with just 5% in the substrate/decorations/water column.
Yes it can cling to other surfaces, but both nitrosomonas and nitrobacter are aerobic, and need the flow of the water to keep them oxygenated. This is why moving decs and a percentage of "old" tank water will do basically nothing to kick-start a new tank cycle.

If there's information to the contrary though, I'd be interested to read it.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Nitrifying Bacteria Facts
They are largely non-motile and must colonize a surface (gravel, sand, synthetic biomedia, etc.) for optimum growth. They secrete a sticky slime matrix which they use to attach themselves.
Nitrifying bacteria are photosensitive, especially to blue and ultraviolet light. After they have colonized a surface this light poses no problem.
https://www.algone.com/nitrifying-bacteria-and-the-breakdown-of-organic-waste-in-the-aquarium
Transforming ammonia to nitrite, and nitrite to nitrates. Nitrifying bacteria settle on rocks, gravel, filter media, sand, bio-wheels, etc.
aquarium substrate
though the aforementioned points are very important, perhaps the most important function served by aquarium gravel is providing a bed in which colonies of beneficial bacteria can multiply. Nitrifying bacteria in the home aquarium break down toxins like ammonia into nitrites then nitrates, a process referred to as the nitrogen cycle. While these bacteria may inhabit your tank filter, as well as some tank surfaces, the substrate is where they are most heavily concentrated.

If you ask me, 95% of a tank surface is the tank substrate and walls(glass panels)
5% or less is the filter. (Except perhaps a fluidised bed)
That's how a basic sponge filter is capable of maintaining a tank, or, just an air stone.

Take your filter and put it on a new tank. Problems.
Take your well established tank and put a new filter on it.......less problems. I must have around 100 set ups under my belt, maybe more over the years......it soon adds up if you change things about, I've probably done 20 or so in the last 3 years......all without loss directly associated to poor water quality.

There are of course, many other sites basically promoting the same idea.
I will not link them all........

But to answer your question, I figured it out by years of reading, of the setting up and moving of tanks many many times and changing various aspects of each set up as I moved around. Obviously testing things to ensure the welfare of my pets. My findings basically agree with the above, your substrate is the key component, if it's properly employed you can create anaerobic conditions, enough even to show considerable nitrate reduction.

 

[TeenyFish]

Hmm. That's an interesting read.

However. I do have to disagree that you have problems taking a filter to a new tank.

When tearing down a hospital/quarantine tank, the advice is always to keep additional media in your filter to run an instant QT.

The main job of the filter is to house bacteria, and as aerobic bacteria requires oxygen, it would stand to reason the majority would be in the filter.

The AAC say the following:
The good bacteria can live on any surface in the aquarium. However, like all organisms ever, they concentrate their populations where their limiting factors are best met. In an aquarium the two things that are the most limited for the bacteria are food and oxygen. Filters provide flow which provides food and oxygen. The surface area of the biomedia provides a surface for the bacteria to grow on where they can sit and allow the oxygen and food to come to them. At the end of the day it is not the biomedia itself that is anything magical, it is nothing more than surface area per volume. The bacteria are happy to grow on any surface, but they do not simply spread out evenly throughout the aquarium. Although any surface area in the tank (decor, glass, substrate, etc.) are otherwise perfectly acceptable, they do not have the same flow as the filter and therefore will not house significant colonies of bacteria.

I myself have insta-cycled six new tanks from seeded media from established tanks. I did not move any substrate/decs/water across, just floss from my first tank.
I have also fully replaced multiple substrates with no impact on water quality.

This is why you need filters in any fish tank.
Yes, a small amount of bacteria may grow in other areas, but they won't get the oxygen they need to do enough for the tank.
Even a simple sponge filter has a massive surface area for bacteria, when you consider each teeny hole in the sponge. It also provides the moving water with oxygen and food particles for the bacteria's optimum growth.

I've never before seen anywhere state with certainty that substrate is better than a filter for bacteria.

 

[OnTheFly]

Back in the day we believed a significant percentage of BB was in the substrate, and the reason undergravel filters were very popular. The best anecdotal evidence I have that the filter contains most of it is during cycling. Cycle with everything new and 21 days. Use an old filter and everything else new and time drops to about 3 days. Just speculation but as a tank gets very mature, perhaps the substrate picks up a little more of the BB duty? Provided you are using coarse enough substrate for a bit of circulation. I don't see sand substrate having any BB value.

 

[TeenyFish]

Back in the day we believed a significant percentage of BB was in the substrate, and the reason undergravel filters were very popular. The best anecdotal evidence I have that the filter contains most of it is during cycling. Cycle with everything new and 21 days. Use an old filter and everything else new and time drops to about 3 days. Just speculation but as a tank gets very mature, perhaps the substrate picks up a little more of the BB duty? Provided you are using coarse enough substrate for a bit of circulation. I don't see sand substrate having any BB value.

+1.

Also: I have sand in all my tanks, and a mix of filters throughout, so yeah, I would count my substrate as pretty much bacteria-bare.
Incidentally, it was a largish course gravel I took out to replace with the sand.
The water quality remained consistent.