non-fish animals

[uscamaro]

I was hoping to get a little variety in my 55gal FW tank by adding other animals such as shrimp, crayfish, crabs, etc. Any advice as to what animals I could add that would "play well with others [fish]"?

 

[Zagz]

Depending on what you have in the tank, shrimp and ADF's come to mind. The ADF's would not be able to be in a tank with semi-aggresssive fish.

 

[fishb0ne]

No to crayfish - they will go after fish
No to crabs - 99.9% are brackish and need access to land

I'd get some shrimp, snails, maybe a freshwater clam here and there ...

 

[uscamaro]

What are ADF's? and what kind of shrimp do you have in mind?

 

[Zagz]

ADF=African Dwarf frog, not to be confused with an ACF=African clawed frog. ACF's should not be housed with fish, ADF's are very tiny and can be housed in shallow tanks with fish. No more than 18" deep, less is preferred.

 

[theotheragentm]

Clams are a bad idea. They filter feed, but they generally run out of food and then end up dying, but since they're buried, you have no idea.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I agree, stay away from clams. Shrimp would be a great idea and so would the frogs. Just make sure you keep the top covered.

 

[uscamaro]

what kind of shrimp do you have in mind? is there a website I could purchase them from, or could they have them at my LFS?

 

[Fishyfanatic]

That depends on what kind of fish you plan to keep. I love Bamboo shrimp and can always find them at PetsMart or Petco. Ghost shrimp are great if you have small peaceful fish. Even an apple snail or two would be great.

 

[Karackle]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I've been thinking about spicing up my rank as well so I'm curious, I've seen bamboo shrimp in my local fish store and they look really cool, but do they need a lot of tank space? or do you know if they'd do well in a 20 gallon? And would they go after small fish?

 

[fishb0ne]

I agree that my clam idea may not have been that great, but you also gotta watch out for bamboos. They, as well, filter feed and unless you have a well established tank and are willing to do a bit of target feeding, they may also slowly starve to death. Just stick with regular shrimp. Ghost shrimp should be an easy find but I personally would love some red cherry shrimp.

Later edit: Karackle: I have 2 in a 10 gallon. It is a tight fit. 2 in 20 should be good, but the most important thing is for the tank to be well established and have a strong current somewhere AND the bamboo be able to perch up close to it. They will not go after fish because, well, they were not given any offensive or defensive claws by mother nature. They have fans for their claws and are great to watch filter feed.

 

[uscamaro]

What about the "popular" Amano Shrimp? Is that the same as a ghost shrimp? If now, how well would that do?

I plan on having small, docile fish so I don't have to worry about seeing body parts lying about the tank. Also, I would like to get a few zebra danios so they can multiply. Basically, nothing more than probably 2-3"

 

[fishb0ne]

Almost the same, but they are algae eaters.

 

[theotheragentm]

Amano Shrimp will run you a lot more than Ghost Shrimp. Although you will have smaller fish, they are opportunistic and may eat a dying shrimp. Ghost Shrimp are great. Also, babies will not be safe from fish, but if there are hiding spots, some of the shrimp will most definitely survive.

 

[Karackle]

Fishb0ne: thanks for the input! Does a "bubble wall" count as a good current? if not then the only current i have is at the top of the tank, so perhaps they're not the best choice for me.

uscamaro: just out of curiosity, do you know much about breeding zebras? i'm only curious because I work with them and I know the ins and outs of zebra danio baby raising and i wanted to make sure you know it's not as easy as that they simply "multiply." But also feel free to shoot questions my way regarding zebra danio breeding techniques if you have any!

 

[fishb0ne]

karackle, the type of current you want is one that's going from the top of the aquarium to the bottom, not the other way around. You want it that way because the current would carry food to the fan shrimp. What type of filter do you have? I have a pretty simple but efficient Tetra Whisper hang on back, which has a pretty decent "cascade". I just allow for some space between the outlet and water surface and this creates a nice, steady waterfall and current strong enough to gently rock the plants on the bottom of my 10 gallon. I see my fan shrimp hanging out there 99% of the time. If you can, get some driftwood/bogwood, something as simple and small as a twig, prop it "sitting up" so that the shrimp can climb on it and sit on it close to the filter outlet.
They are not hard to care for, but they do have some special requirements They will let you know when they are happy by showing hints of red or turning a deep red altogether. Those dull deep green or brownish bamboo shrimp you see at the LFS? If kept happily, you could see them turn as red as the reddest cherry shrimp
FYI, bamboo shrimp = asian fan shrimp, because I realized I referred to them by both names

 

[Karackle]

Hi fishb0ne,

thanks, yeah I have a cascade over the side filter with a pretty decent current, and I was going to put some driftwood in the tank anyway, so that sounds pretty good I think, does anything extra need to be put into the tank foodwise? It sounds like one or two of these guys could realy add something cool to the tank! Thanks for the advice, i really appreciate it

 

[fishb0ne]

How old is your tank?
If you see the bamboos scavenging on the bottom like mine were doing in these videos I took a while back:

then you should try target feeding. Scavenging means they are not getting enough food. Generally, bamboo shrimp die like clams. Over the course of months they slowly starve, poor things, in the hands of careless keepers.
I feed mine Hikari First Bites and Two Little Fishies PhytoPlan, which is natural phytoplankton, a food source they get in their native environment. You could also feed zooplankton.
I got the stuff off Dr Foster and Smith. Either sprinkle it at the intake, the current will take care of the rest, or use a dropper.
Here's what I posted on another forum

What I feed mine is Hikari First Bites, PhytoPlan by Two Little Fishies, which is basically phytoplankton, a natural source of food for bamboo shrimp. You can also feed them ZoPlan which is zooplankton, also a natural source of food for these guys. Dr Foster and Smith carries both.
Tetramin tropical tablets also work. They are sinking tablets that look like aspirin and are cheaper than the foods mentioned above. You would have to use a shotglass with a little water in it though to get them to soften up and break down into powder.

Ever since I've started using these foods, my bamboo shrimp have stopped scavanging the substrate [when they do that it means means they're starving and it's somewhat stressful for them]. Only times I see them do that is when I neglect feeding them. With a fairly aged aquarium, I don't have to spot-feed that often, maybe 3 times a week.

I prefer letting the food float instead of wetting it. What I do is drop a small pinch of either First Bites or PhytoPlan. This floats on the surface and the filter current [which is a standard Tetra Whisper PF-10i] draws it to the outlet and the current takes it to the bamboos. Another thing I have done in the past is drop a quarter of a tetramin tropical tablet right between the chemical and biological filters. The current is strong there and the piece slowly breaks down and the bits and pieces get into the water column. Not sure how effective this is but by my reasoning, works pretty well. Whatever is left gets picked up by my clean-up crew which consists of a hoard of malaysian trumpet snails and ghost shrimp. BTW, the ghost shrimp go CRAZY when they sense the phytoplankton. They seem to really, I mean REALLY like it. Alas, they have a hard time feeding on it from what I can tell because it is a VERY fine type of food, almost like dust.

So there you have it. Any other suggestions are more than welcome as I'm no expert at this, I just stated what I'm doing and what seems to work for me

 

[Karackle]

Thank you so much! That's really useful information, and they're definitely something i'll think about adding. The tank is ~18 months old and i've recently been switching over to make it a planted tank (don't know if that makes a difference) Again, thank you for the info and I'm going to look more into these little guys and see what my LFS had to offer

 

[fishb0ne]

18 sounds good, there should be plenty of detrius and such in it. Plants will help, especially the water chemistry, not to mention make it a nice looking tank
If you go planted, I personally recommend Seachem's line: Flourish, Flourish Excel, Flourish Potassium and Phosphorous. Possibly Nitrogen depending on your nitrate readings. I skipped it because I don't seem to need it at all.
Here's my 10g with low-light plants, you can see the kind of effect these had on the plants by looking at the not-so good looking photos of the plants before I started dosing ...
http://picasaweb.google.com/fishbon3/10GallonFreshwater