Odd LFS advice...

[cJw]

I stopped @ a 'Feeder's Supply' store omw home yesterday just to look around, considering a small school of danios in my already overstocked tank (yeah, I know; I doubt I'll get 'em. ) and was surprised at the advice I got from the ''fish' employee.

First off, I told him my dilemma, that I was already stocked plenty and what I was considering, and he asked what kind of filter I had. I told him (emp 280 on a 30g long - rated for up to 50g tanks) and he said, "Well, that's plenty of filtration, you could overstock w/out a problem." I shrugged this off, knowing over-filtering could help a LITTLE with overstocking, but I wouldn't tell a customer this, especially as confidently as he did. :?

Then he went on to tell me that doing PWCs weekly is BAD for my tank and that I'm probably removing bacteria that my tank needs. He continued on to say I should do about 25% every 4-6 weeks. (I know that many people have differing opinions on PWC, and that's not what this thread is about.)

I do 30% pwcs every weekend, and am considering lowering that to maybe every other weekend, but I believe that the more often (within reason) you pwc, the better your chances of avoiding water quality issues and disease.

Anyway, I was curious what you thought about his advice...

On a side note, I was shocked at how well spoken and (seemingly) knowledgeable he (thought he) was, considering he's a thick, 6'4" guy, who's bald on top with a patch on the back (kind of a skullet) with a biker moustache/goatee. Proof again of how wrong first impressions can be.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

You are correct, he is giving bogus info. The more PWC's, the better the water quality, and the less chances of problems. 30% weekly is good IMO. I do 50%-75%, but that's because I'm overstocked. But that was my choice, and I don't mind.

No, water changes do not remove bacteria. The bacteria grow in the filter and gravel. There may be some in the water column floating around, but for the most part, very little. It's all in the filter and gravel.

 

[brant]

Ok look at it from his standpoint He sells you more fish than you need $ you change your water less fish die sooner more fish $ do see the cycle he likes it adds upto $ in his pocket. While I have been at my lfs I come to relise there are 2 types of people that come in there the ones who keep fish as a hobby or pasion they wiil spend the money nessisary to get it rite the first time and also seek advise at places like here to make sure they get it rite. Then there are people that just want a tank full of pretty fish ( like they are just decorations) most of these people will let the tank go until problems arise and then throw money at the problem trieing to fix it (usualy more than just doing it rite the first time) and when that fails they either quit or do it rite the second time. Just think how many people show up here seeking advise for aproblem on an existing tank and then think of how many people show up wanting to start a tank and are looking for the rite way to go about it. There are alot more people in the first class basiclay spending $ twice to do it rite (I'm guilty of this as well). Just my 2 cents.

 

[YuccaPatrol]

I do 50% water changes every 5 days or so, whenever my nitrate readings go above 10ppm.

I feed my fish sparingly and make sure that at least once a week I do NOT feed them anything at all. Fish deaths are an incredibly rarity around here and I am sure that my overfiltration and frequent large water changes are the reason for my great looking and happy fish.

 

[cJw]

It's all in the filter and gravel.

I thought as much, but just had never heard someone claim weekly PWCs were BAD! Even if you claimed they stressed the fish too much, I'd still argue it's not enough to be 'bad'. pfeh!

@ brant: This guy wasn't management, and Feeder's Supply stores are a chain that dont really specialize in fish, so I doubt he's trying to 'sell' me. From the way he talked about his tank @ home, I'm pretty sure he just likes fish like the rest of us.

Do you really think my fish would DIE if I didn't do a PWC once a month? I don't... but I could be wrong.

 

[brant]

Well fish die sooner or later just a fact of life but I believe with better care they will live longer stronger and happier the statement I made does not intend to imply a drastic immediate death just the absence of prolonging life therefore having to buy new fish sooner. Sorry if I miss spoke (or typed as it were)

 

[ace]

Seems to me the man was trying to make a sale on you. Did it seem like a slow day at the store? Having worked retail I can tell you on slow days people will just start saying the dumbest things to try to make the sale.

 

[cJw]

@brant : I didn't mean to come off as defensive; you said nothing wrong.

@ace : The store wasn't really slow, but there weren't any customers in the fish dept. This employee, though was eating his dinner - he'd just gotten there, he said. I tried to convince him to just eat and ignore me, knowing I was 'only looking', but he insisted to ask what I was looking for.

As someone who spent years in retail, I don't see how/why he would try to 'make a sale', especially with his Whopper no cheese and fries getting cold, and also considering that he gets paid hourly.


Side note: If, by some chance, you're 6'4", have a skullet and work @ a Feeder's Supply, please take no offense to this thread.

 

[brant]

Thats ok cJw did not take as defensive just thought I would clarify. Feeling long winded and philosofical today must be the bright shinny object in the sky. (the sun just incase anyone tuoght other lol)

 

[ace]

cJw, you're right I would never leave food to make a sale. Especially a whopper or BigMac.lol. Side note:He might not make any commision but maybe he had a goal a lot of stores set daily goals for their salespeople.

 

[cJw]

Feeling long winded and philosofical today must be the bright shinny object in the sky.

Ok, for a second there I thought you were Prophet Yahweh!

 

[fearlessfisch]

My fish deaths and illnesses decreased dramatically when I switched from changing the water every two weeks to doing it weekly.

 

[bosk1]

It's all in the filter and gravel.

Do you really think my fish would DIE if I didn't do a PWC once a month? I don't... but I could be wrong.

Optimal is once every 7-10 days. Will your fish die if you do not change your water more frequently? Probably not, unless something else goes wrong. But their health will slowly deteriorate, and you have a higher chance of something else going wrong in your tank.

 

[tropicfishman]

you would eventully have to replace water sooner than 4-6 weeks anywyas, by the time it evaporates, becomes full of waste and algea you'd be better off tearing the tank down completely, what a foolish man lol

 

[cJw]

I was thinking the same thing; the evaporation is the reminder for me that it's time for a PWC. If I were to decrease my PWCs to every other week, I'd have to top the tank off on the off weekends.

I'm happy to say I have ZERO visible algae growth since I switched from plastic to live plants. 8)

 

[caribou]

I'm sorry, but I feel compelled to jump into this discussion. PWC, once per week, will save you a lot of grief in the long run. If you don't have Python system, get one. I have two friends who think changing 50% of their water every 6 mos. is o.k.!! They also do a lot of tank tear downs too!

 

[Andos99]

Just another example that proves doing your own research is more valuable then anything else you can do for your pets.

 

[cJw]

@ caribou : At one point, I remember a respecting AA member telling me that they'd never had any disease, and they thought it was due to their sticking to a once weekly regimen of PWC. I believed them and have tried to be as stringent myself and haven't any problems myself.

Absolutely agreed, Andos99; I was thinking the same thing all the while he was talking to me.


I remembered some more "advice" from him this weekend: while I was talking about how my rummies and gold barbs tend to stay @ the bottom of the tank (which is the area they prefer, I've read recently), he suggested getting a few Tiger Barbs to "stir them around some". I've only heard stories about tiger barb aggression issues and nothing else, so I instantly dismissed the idea.

Anyway, he explained the logic is that since the tiger barbs would constantly be chasing each other, and the rest of the fish would move out of their way, causing more 'motion' in my tank. !?


(side note: I feel bad for all of the aquarists out there who don't use the internet as a resource; I can't imagine having to set up a tank w/out AA! )